Nicholas Kovats

Sculpting light is for weenies I guess. It's a race to the lighting bottom as the DI people strike matches to illuminate their beloved square pixels.

http://www.edmundoptics.com/imaging-lenses/imaging-lens-accessories/fixed-focal-length-lens-c-mount-spacer-kit/2018/ https://www.thorlabs.com/newgrouppage9.cfm?objectgroup_id=8284 http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Fixed-Focal-Length-Lens-C-Mount-Spacer-Kit-Adapter-Ring-/270544823332

Sure. It will work. But the focal length of the CCD taking lens is critical for the very short distance involved. Some use tiny C Mount spacers to nail the distance from camera focus screen to CCD sensor. Trial and error.

There is a plethora of second hand 16mm C-Mounts on the market. Shouldn't be a problem to find one that suits your price range. Even cheap CCTV lenses.

No. The B 2008 is a Super 8 camera with associated lenses that cover the Super 8 frame not the larger R16 16mm frame. Unless you like vignetting.

Congratulations, Pav! Longtime coming!

Indeed. We of the obsessive aspect ratio. :) I might add that my personal UP8 R8 2.8 Bolex does happen to have a 2.8:1 viewfinder with 2.4 Cinemascope markings. It's a nice practical safety margin if one is so inclined. I might add that the historical antecedent is Ultra Panavision 2.78:1 as exemplified by the original Ben Hur and latest Hateful Eight. In fact Panavison has a working 2.78 projector setup that features the famous Ben Hur chariot race which apparently and ultimately convinced Tarantino to shoot in the UP format.

Gorgeous footage! How much grading if any? Love the opening contrast with squarish low rez video. Film, film and more film please.

Thanks for the 10m DS8 link, Heikki. They have coveted 100ft DS8 rolls for my Bolex UP8 3.1 camera! And quite reasonably priced.

Patrick, I am not sure why the reference to "idiot" but it's a valid question. Entrenched and passionate opinions are par for the course in this forum when it comes to film transport discussions but human egos are just part of the equation. In fact your concept has been implemented to a degree in my two ultrawide film formats called UltraPan8 R8 2.8 and UltraPan8 DS8 3.1 , i.e. https://www.facebook.com/UltraPan8WidescreenFilm/info/ "FILM TRANSPORT: There are two specific variants. The first utilizes the entire 16mm width of 2 perf Regular 8mm film (R8) in conjunction with the 8mm pulldown cycle. It is called UltraPan8 2.8 R8 and debuted in 2011. The 2.8 designation refers to it's aspect ratio with an actual frame size of 10.54mm x 3.75mm. Note that this design uses the fact that Regular 8 film fundamentally shares the identical perforation dimensions of Standard 16mm film. Run time is effectively doubled relative to 16mm film magazines as there are 80x UltraPan8 frames per 16mm foot as opposed to 40. The imaging area is 113% greater than the Regular 8 format (SMPTE camera aperture). Check out a scanned example, e.g. The second adaptation utilizes the full 16mm width of 2 perf Double Super 8 film (DS8) in conjunction with a Super 8 pulldown cycle. It is known as UltraPan8 3.1 DS8 and debuted in 2012. The 3.1 designation refers to it's aspect ratio with an actual frame size of 13.00mm x 4.22mm. Note that the actual frame width is greater than Super 16. Also note that the Super 8 perforation is smaller dimensionally than Regular 8 /16mm which allows more of the 16mm film width to be used. Magazine run time is also doubled as there are 80x UltraPan8 frames per 16mm foot as opposed to 40. The imaging area is 34% greater than the smaller Super 8 format (SMPTE camera aperture), e.g. " The 2nd variant, UP8 DS8 3.1 does require recentering of the lens mount but I managed decent 3.1:1 frame coverage with my Zeiss Jena 10mm Tevidon APO C-Mount as per the 2nd scanned example above absent a re-centered lens mount. I don't have a scanned frame handy at work to illustrate the overscan parameters but the image extends beyond the left/right perfs. If your interested I can possibly post some frames in this thread. Oh yeah. The math. The total square mm areas generated by both formats is as follows, i.e. 1. UltraPan8 2.8 R8 = 10.54mm x 3.75mm = 39.53 mm2 2. UltraPan8 3.1 DS8 = 13.00mm x 4.22mm = 54.86 mm2 Cheers! Nicholas

Brent, Both UP8 formats are scanned by John Glehill at bitworks.org on a custom sprocketless scanner. Which is the key. A sprocket based scanner would require custom Regular 8 or Super 8 teethed sprockets that are 16mm wide. They do not exist. But there are a fair number of sprocketless 16mm scanners out there. The same logic applies to processing. My local film lab has a sprocketless 16mm processor and I label my exposed film clearly requesting no slitting. John's setup is a special custom rig and he is able to re-center his scanner lens to the UP8 optical center. Remember. Both UP8 formats are half the height of a 16mm frame. The sprocketless Lasergraphic scanners could also scan a full 16mm frame of UP8 footage resulting in two stacked UP8 frames per scanned frame. I am not aware if Lasergraphic scanner lens can recenter . It's all or nothing and is specific to R8, S8, R16, S16 and 35 Academy apertures. I do have an instructional PDF buried somewhere by a US based fan regarding extracting these stacked UP8 frames and then stitching them singularly into an image sequence for digital editing. In fact Lasergraphics almost developed special firmware for UP8 scans but nixed the project. Long story. But in essence it's a small market. But then again the CEO of Lasergraphics was not aware of the availability of 65mm film stock. I am not kidding. My UP8 scans are technically overscanned at approximately 3.5K resolution into a JPEG image sequence. Huge files. Very easy to import this into my Sony Vegas Pro. There are not full edge to edge scans like Lasergraphic based scans but the UP8 R8/16mm perfs are partially visible as are preceding and following frames. You can crop to your hearts content down to CinemaScope or 16:9 if you wish. Mind you the pixel density decreases accordingly. Cheers! Nicholas

Brent, This was implemented back in 2012 as per my UltraPan8 Facebook page, i.e. https://www.facebook.com/UltraPan8WidescreenFilm/info/?tab=page_info&view "The second adaptation utilizes the full 16mm width of 2 perf Double Super 8 film (DS8) in conjunction with a Super 8 pulldown cycle. It is known as UltraPan8 3.1 DS8 and debuted in 2012. The 3.1 designation refers to it's aspect ratio with an actual frame size of 13.00mm x 4.22mm. Note that the actual frame width is greater than Super 16. Also note that the Super 8 perforation is smaller dimensionally than Regular 8 /16mm which allows more of the 16mm film width to be used. Magazine run time is also doubled as there are 80x UltraPan8 frames per 16mm foot as opposed to 40. The imaging area is 34% greater than the smaller Super 8 format (SMPTE camera aperture)," e.g. The most common variant is the Regular 8 model, i.e. UltraPan8 2.1 R8, e.g. The DS8 version technically requires re-centering of the lens mount similar to Super 16. It is wider laterally than 16mm at 13mm. But I achieved good results as per the link above with a Zeiss Jena 10mm APO telecentric lens w/ a Bolex Bayonet to C-Mount adapter. The Bolex cameras are re-manufactured by Jean-Louis Seguin in Montreal, i.e. bolextech@gmail.com.

Joe, I shoot regularly the optical center of my Angeneiux Retrofocus 5.9mm on my Bolex UltraPan8 camera. I had a Cameflex to Bolex Bayonet lens adapter machined by Jean-Louis Seguin so I could use it on my UP8 camera. Very wide in combination with the ultrawide UP8 format. That is about as wide as one can go with no distortion. Note the absence of any curvilinear distortion. The camera is hybrid of H8/H16 parts, i.e The next best option for your more rectangular H16 frame could be a KERN 10mm SWITAR with an Bolex ASPHERON 5.5mm wide angle. Not cheap. What is your lens mount? C or Bayonet? By Da Bay Store: http://tiny.cc/sd39by http://tiny.cc/ge39by A few lucky individuals have the Century 1.9mm, 2.5mm and 3.5mm optics for their Bolex. Very rare and super expensive. I guess I like good quality ultra wide angle optics. I am sure others will contribute some variations on the theme. Brent Finlay makes an awesome Super 16mm 5.3mm wide angle for C-Mounts, i.e. http://www.brentfinley.com/super16fish.htm

The best candidate are Bolex H8, R16 and the rare DS8 models. Tons of aftermarket animation motors down to sub-framerates. Was used as a standard animation/timelapse camera by the BBC for many years.

A bit dated but relevant, ie http://www.studiodaily.com/2010/11/a-cinematographer-among-the-walking-dead/

What Red camera at 6K? The Walking Dead is shot in Super 16 format with Arri 416 camera.

Beautiful S8 K40 aesthetic, Serge. Well done. The music perfectly compliments the essence of Eastern European melancholy. Love the muted tones of the K40. Do you remember the camera you used?

Will you believe me if I repeat the affirmation a third time?

You cannot project R8 films in a Super 8 projector and vice versa. Different perforation dimensions and positioning. So yes. R8 films (8mm wide) are utilized in R8 or Double 8 projectors.

Yes. In fact R8mm perforations are identical to 16mm perfs meaning that R8 film can be used in 16mm projectors for checking your footage.

As always, Jose, superlative!

Bang on again, Carl. You just illustrated beautifully the rigidity of uniform pixel distribution (an x-y matrix) relative to the randomly dispersed and varying size of film particles and their distribution (x-y-z). Just astounding that these fundamental principals were discovered over 100 years ago.

Screw interlaced video! I want my interlaced film! Pushing the hybrid analog/digital envelope once again, Carl.

Fascinating, Michael. This topic deserves a unique thread. On the various available techniques to "degrade" clinical digital sensors. Are there any serious efforts to introduce modular Optical Low Pass Filters (OLPF) that can fundamentally introduce "randomness" in sensor captures? And so on.,,

Once again an elegant rendering to backup your statements. Touche!