Friedemann Wachsmuth

Tom: Measure the width of the R10's film gate. It is narrower than the spec suggests. Guessing why?

+1, David and Anthony.

Well, Lithium AAs are always better than Alkaline AAs. 20% less weight, much more stamina, better discharge curve, better coping with extreme temperatures. I use nothing else if I have to use batteries.

Oh boy, the sole idea to compare camera qualities based on compressed and edited digital transfers is really quite telling already. Some Super 8 facts: - The film guiding piece with the gate – let me call it film track – (usually metal) in each Super 8 camera, together with the pressure pad in the cartridge, forms a channel for the film to run in. This channel is supposed to have 0,14mm space for the film. The Kodachrome films that introduced Super 8 where 0,13mm thick, so the film "ran free" in the channel, unlike to how pressure plates work. - Kodak themselves had a non-flat film track e.g. in the Kodak M4 Instamatic Camera. There were little ramps before and after the gate to put the film into a slightly concave shape in the gate. This was supposed to compensate for optical imperfections in the relatively simple lenses (and it worked!). Do you see that a concave shape does not fit together what a pressure plate does? - Actually, some high-end S8 cameras as the Nikon R10 and I think also the Leicina Spezial use the same trick, so this wasn't a one-off. Ergo: S8 Cartridges do not contain a pressure plate. The pressure pad forms one side of a channel and does neither work like a pressure plate. --> The channel allows film to move back and forth and causes "pumping" focus as well as non-flat focal planes. (I hope my terms are understandable, I am not a native speaker) - To keep the film in place during exposure, the cartridge is supposed to provide a certain, defined friction. Since the film core is turned constantly, the film is also pulled constantly by the core. The pulling torque is higher at the beginning of a cartridge (small core diameter) than at the end (high core diameter). While the core is supposed to be wound with a torque of iirc 90-110 cN, this torque alone must not advance the film. Only when supported by the claw the film must move. - To achieve the required transport friction, Kodak relied on and defined a bunch of different parameters, such as the film's thickness, the film base's bending behavior/flexibility, the presence of a remjet layer on the back side, a slip disc in the unexposed-compartment, several 90° and 360° curves the film has to take (one with roller, one without) plus a defined tension on the film due to the ratchet on the wind-up core. There are like two dozens of parameters that have to be right to achieve the right friction. - Just to revive memory: In "normal" cameras, the pressure plate is supposed to hold the film steady during exposure, provide this friction. Sprocket gears do the continuos movement, the two film loops give space during exposure and the claw advances "under" the pressure plate while the shutter is closed. This system basically depends on one parameter only: the pressure plate force. All other speeds and forces are defined. So far so good -- the S8 system worked surprisingly well and often still does! However, it is far away from ingenious. Film today is thicker than Kodachrome was (7285 for example has 0,15mm after development). Other film is stiffer, especially Fujis, also some slide materials as EPY/E64T. Then, modern films often no longer have the remjet layer. Kodak's cartridge molds and manufacturing steps are not as precise as they used to be. For example, the slip discs (which only people who do the development ever see) often have rough edges these days and tend to not move. Camera's wind-up torque is most often below 80cN sicne the slip clutches got oily or aged. There are many other factors here that can impact. Not one of these things is to blame -- its usually a sum of factors that cause the S8 system to run out of specs and start showing failure (as way too much jitter, bad sharpness etc). Due to the high complexity of this system, it tends to fail (your words actually!) and any camera with a straight film-path, two loops, a pressure plate and ideally sprocket gears is and will be superior to the S8 system. TL;DR: Super 8 Cartridges can work well (as in Jose Luis Example), but they often don't. Servicing a camera often helps, but often not, since other factors (film, cartridge) chime in. "Invention of a better cartridge" is a nice idea but won't bring any guarantees, since there still would be no loops, no sprocket gears, no straight film path. Sorry for the long read. I hope this clarifies some things for those who didn't know and also explains why standard systems (sprocket gears, pressure plate film loops) are desirable normality and not at all "over-complexity". (Oh, and to everybody who followed me till here it should be clear now why the GK Framemaster plate is not without risk. It can help, but it can also make things worse. Hint 1: Measure the Current on your Camera Motor with and without the little shiny plate. Hint 2: Consider what it does to light hitting emulsions that don't have a remjet layer.)

Tom, True! Unfortunately, the S8 cartridge way too often does snot work properly. There is a big list of possible causes, often combinations of them cause the trouble. There is no SPOF to blame. The core problem is the technically bad design of the S8 cartridge system. It is definitely easy to use, but full of horrible flaws. I could name you more than a dozen. Good luck. If its so much simpler, please do it! Many very smart people have planned this and some even executed on their plans. No-one succeeded in the end. The problem IS the conceptual design, period. Agfa's cart was a bit better, but the molds got destroyed after being worn out. If the cartridges are good enough for you -- great! If others do not want to jeopardize their work and want highest reliability with S8, the new camera is the way to go, since it is not 40 years old AND approaches most of the flaws. Just some facts for the record: - Kodak's cartridge does NOT have a pressure plate. The film is supposed to run free in it. The plastic just supports it. Read the patents! - "Registration flaws only have to do with precision tolerances of the pull-down claw" is just plain wrong on so many levels. Sorry. - Cartridges do not get "repacked" multiple times and are not reused. Cartridges always 100% break when they get opened. - Wittner cartridges are and always have been just empty Kodak cartridges. No offense, I really like Super 8 and have shot (and developed and loaded) many kilometers of it and still do so -- but a lot you are saying is just plain wrong. Being wrong is not a problem, but for your own credibility, please don't claim that others "don't really understand the technology" and thus follow the wrong approach. It isn't as simple as that.

Good for you, Tom, that the awesome and ingenious Cartridge-Super 8 brings all the quality you need!

Anthony is nailing it. (: If imperfect S8 is what you are looking for, this is not the camera for you. I guess at least some of you have experienced how much better S8 looks if it originated from a Leicina or Bolex DS8 conversion. It is less easy but so much better. The Logmar has the same effect, but even more radical.

It's not a stepper, it's a normal DC motor -- if that matters. :) Florian is working on a full translation to english already. Erkan: Your input is valid, but you are watching a prototype -- the buttons, outlets and controls are not at their final position yet. Also, everything green-grayish is printed PLA at this point. This will not be the case in the production version. Tom: Claiming that "nobody will notice registration problems" when Super 8 is "just shot" is a very wild statement. Just one detail FYI: The plastic piece in the S8 cart is no pressure plate. It is not intended to press against the film, it is just intended to support it while "running free". The little GK-Framemaster plate can not fix this conceptual downside since the friction gets way too high for a pull-claw with no supporting sprocket gear. If you are "happy with this quality and don't want more", then just stick with what you have :) The danish camera just implements best industry practices and circumvents most of the conceptual weaknesses of the crappy S8-Cartridge. You should see projected test footage -- the frame line does not move a tiny bit at all. Never seen this stability on any Super 8 footage ever. A Nikon R10 with Agfa Aviphot Chrome 200 D (very flexible Polyester base) gets close, but not as good as what the Logmar produces. BTW: I only realized tonight that the film also has pressure saddles (not sure if thats the right term) on the sides, so horizontal jitter doesn't exist either. Pretty exciting.

A test batch of CHS100-II in Super 8 is planned for November. It will be polyester-based (Yeah! Love that!). If it runs well (which I bet it will) and it will be accepted by the market, more might come. The price will be a bit higher than the current Adox Pan Reverso Stock (which BTW does NOT come from Mortsel).

Yup, just standard E6. The first impression when its wet is indeed shocking, but once it has dried it is really beautiful.

The blue-ish milkyness when it is wet is normal. Its Polyester base. The Wittner 200D is easy to develop, very tolerant against imperfect timings, has a pretty stable emulsion (not coming off) and turns out very well.

Thanks, Benjamin! In the meantime I heard form another filmer who tried many of the Pentax /Cosmicar lenses in detail and he said that that they are clearly inferior to most cine film lenses. As industry- or cctv lenses they are optimized to be small, cheap and fast. It seems they all have pretty strong distortion, chromatic aberation and blur in the edges -- plus their apertures are often made form 3 or 4 blades only, thus making ugly bokeh. Still interesting since they are so cheap, but just wanted to share this practical experience. I hear some Kowa lenses are really good, but they are very expensive too... glad I got a good selection of Kern Primes. :)

Any link you can share here? :)

I recommend Dokumol. It lasts equally long too (if not longer).

Avoid Kahl. He has disappointed too many already. We need returning filmers that do NOT get disappointed.

If you have a fitting plug (or can make one) and only a contact needs to be closed, it is pretty easy -- I like to use the Photomos Relais AQY212EH fro Panasonic: http://www.voelkner.de/products/37800/Photomos-Relais-1A-400ma-60v-Aqy.html The AQY212GH version takes 1.1A at 60V but costs twice as much. :)

Nope, the Kaccema is a bit easier to load. At least the Kaccema is "safer", since it is light-proof once snapped together.

Hey, It is mostly German, but a) it has many photos and b) there is Google Translate. :) So feel free to checkout the rather new German Blog on all things 8-16mm film: http://www.filmkorn.org/ I used to write for the "Schmalfilm" magazine which is now dead -- so this is the new home for many of its ex writers. :)

There is no such thing as a copper ring and there should not be :) http://www.filmkorn.org/konfektionierhilfe-fur-super-8-meterware/ (well, at least the photos -- or Google Translate?) might give you some hints on "how to make perfect 50ft windings in the dark" that you can fill in this cartridge. If you did not order WIttner's expensive plastic ring, you can take anything else (even a ring made of copper if you want) as aid to wind with the right diameter. Use a C-size battery cell as reference for the right diameter. I always take the ring (or whatother aid you might use) out after I made the Winding and use a prepared snippet of masking tape to fix the ends of the film. You should absolutely practice filling the cart in bright light until you are absolutely safe to do so in the dark. Note: Sacrifice an Agfa cartridge if oyu can get your hand on one. They are much easier to open and also last longer for refillings, since they have the better mechanics.

Nice -- now I just gotta poish up my french skills. Will be in southern france next week, maybe that helps ;)

Yes. It rocks on 16mm. I don't have anything digitized yet, though, but just love it. In fact, I loved it os much that I ordered 2400ft of it in 16mm for about $400. See Wittner's current offer above, the cans they sell (containing two winds with 1200ft each) are "as the come" from Mortsel, Belgium. 16mm 1R, runs like a charme -- just have a dry splicer handy.

I tried it -- Diafine is too soft as first developer. Use a paper developer in lower dilution for pushing. I prefer Tetenal Dokumol in 1+6 or 1+7.

Wittner bumped it from €14.95 to €24.95... basically overnight. And yes, that is without development. Crazy.

I developed two test cartridges of Avichrome 200 D yesterday (yes, regular E6) and captured them off the wall with my iPhone -- not great, but good enough to show how little light this stock needs and how amazingly good it is with mixed light situations: Or in Big Please note that the projection (as usual) looks ten-fold better. Also, this is a beta product, the release version should get to market in a few weeks. Estar base provides the best registration and the smoothest run I have ever seen with Super 8 at all. Even cameras I considered as dead transported this without any hassle, including crossfades on the last feet. I am deeply in love with this stock already.

I also have a bunch of short ends of various Gevachromes. Would be very interested as well! I had no time yet to shoot or develop them -- but a recipe might change priorities :)