Friedemann Wachsmuth

Karl, I totally agree -- this film would certainley need to be developed as accurate and perfect as possible to E-6 compliance. I have recently tested a lot of pro labs and was blown away by the differences in the results (all test cartridges had the exact same content and where the exact same charge, exposed in the same hour). BTW, I think the ICC profile will not differ for 8 resp. 16mm as long as the master roll was the same. Actually 16mm (or even 35) stock might be much easier to handle with some of the needed measurement devices. :) ICC profiles for negative stock are an interesting idea that kinda turn my brain into a pretzel. I am currently not sure if the icc profile should represent the colors achievable after printing (and thus inverting again) or before. Probably the latter, otherwise it would need the mix of two profiles. Actually such "inversion" icc profiles should be possible. This test jpeg with an odd icc embedded (try it in different viewers) almost does this.

Well, I can help you with drafting the Plus-X color space ;) I guarantee you that your EOS will not be able to capture all of E100D's gamut without multiple exposures and some merging work. My colorimeter ran into bounds as well as my 5Dmk2 did. Your approach to "trace" the curves to get to a lookup table sounds promising, but its too mathematical for me. I'd be glad and curious though to see the icc profiles and test what they would do in a color managed workflow.

You are right, the spectral density/sensitivity charts give a hint. And they do show that Kodak is actually measuring this :) I just wonder why they do not provide ICC profiles. I know I have ICC profiles for some Fuji Photo Paper. Regarding the "scanner light" -- its not just the light but also the gamut of the CCD (or CMOS) that matters. I mean that is why color management exists -- but you need a profile for each device/part/media used in your workflow. I do have profiles for my scanner, my camera, my monitors. I do not have a profile for any film stock. I just wonder why this is not common. Digitising analogue material is happening often, so providing icc profiles for the analogue media would definitely help. Well, usually the analogue media's gamut is smaller than the digital ones, but definitely not in the case of slides and reversal film.

Chaps, working a lot with Ektachrome 100D (7285) and Velvia 50D, I am realizing all the time what an incredible color space these modern daylight reversal stocks have. When scanning them, it most often gets obvious that their gamut is way out of range of what the scanning CCD/CMOS can actually reproduce. Clipping in some channels appears all the time and very easily. Beside the challenge of reproducing frames of this stock with an appropriately wide gamut -- are there ICC profiles for Kodak/Fuji stocks available? This just so much asks for proper color management, but gamut mapping is not really possible without such profiles and a defined Rendering Intent. I haven't found anything on the Kodak website. Am I missing something? (And yes, projecting such wide colorspace film is always the best choice, but still the limited scanning abilities are [or should be considered as] an issue.)

Yevgeny, beside the things said above, the JPG-file you posted contains a non-standard ICC profile that many Browsers on most operating systems will not render probably. It might be that you are so disappointed b/c your viewer-tool does not use color management (aka interprets icc profiles). When lifting the shadows a bit and properly converting it to sRGB, even this mediocre compressed JPG files looks quite ok: As Karl outlined, nobody can say for sure, but I would say that your negative contains a lot more information than what your example suggests.

That's funny. I cross process a lot and throw almost every stock into E-6, sometimes a bit modified by experience and "rule of thumb". I alway liked the results. Just today, I developed Kodak 7250 from 1979 in E-6 and it came out surprisingly nice. Last week I threw Ekta 100D into pretty old and dead C-41 and got amazing color shifts. VNF: Original Foto vs. crossed: No Karl, my densitometer did not even saw these. Yes Karl, they look amazingly warm and artsy in projection and I do like them a lot, since I never expected them to be 1080p with AdobeRGB-Gamut. Great Technology is not required to make great film.

Ron helped designing the process. He did not design it. And yes, sure there might be some color shifts. So what? The results are (or can be) excellent. Excellence is most often not measured with Densitometers.

http://itunes.apple.com/de/app/kodak-cinema-tools/id355215215?mt=8 is not particularly for Super 8 but often useful. And free.

I have done this, Karl. It works. No reason to raise concerns. BTW, E6 is always color controllable in a pretty fair range by tweaking pH. Thats not news. And if you read carefully, you see that I wrote about almost exhausted liquids. The last film run through E6 is not at all getting worse than the first one if you stay within specification. There is no risk at all to run into a "washed-out purplish image with muddy highlights" then. Test clips are certainley always recommended, but who would NOT do them anyway?

Regarding "Development in Tokyo only": If you don't mind removing Remjet, Single-8 film can perfectly be developed in E-6, even at home. The process seems fully compatible. Since the remjet might mess up your chemicals, process R25N last in almost exhausted liquids.

Just shoot. If you can (and you should), shoot a test roll first to see what you get. The 1014 is a very decent camera and if you want "ease", just rely on its automatic settings. Tri-X further is a tolerant stock.

It is probably too late, but since you intend to telecine and postpro this footage anyway, I would have developed these rolls as negatives in some mitigating Developer as Diafine. That would give you 1-2 stops more speed (with tri-x actually 1 2/3 stops) and way more headroom for compensating mistakes. How did it all turn out..?

David, you need a tank for film stock -- looking similar to what you know form photography, but with way larger reel or totally different construction. I recommend to use th Search here (or Google) to get some basic clue about this topic, it has been discussed before :) Home-developing film footgae is big fun and worth the initial hassle. Oh, and if you are on a low budget, check out my DIY tank: http://www.peaceman.de/blog/index.php/inexpensive-super-8-home-processing-tank

There is a simple, yet effective way to make Potassiumpermanganate-based bleach last for months instead of minutes. This is absolutely worth it considering how insanely toxic dichromates are. So how? FIrst of all, use demineralized water for both parts (the acid and the permanganate). This is important, since the latter does react with traces in normal tab water quickly. With this tweak only, the two solutions poured together last many hours instead of minutes. If you add 20g M19 (Photo-Calgon, Sodiumpotassiumhexametaphosphate) oer Liter of mixed solution, it works for many months. This is from an old Agfa Patent EP 1006408 B1, so worth a try :) The Foma Kit is such a rip off.

Keep on explaining, Carl (NOT Karl!). This is truly fascinating and interesting. I poked around a lot with avisynth by now and, even if it it not (really/solely) applying SuperResolution algorithms, it it amazing what it can do to involve the time axis. Don't give up!

David, have a look here: http://www.peaceman.de/blog/index.php/inexpensive-super-8-home-processing-tank And let me know if you need some detailed chemistry recipes. I put a lot of work into fine tuning such and getting to perfect results.

I would love to see a picture of a Wittner 100D with a 100D notch. Have you used the "old" notch ruler? You might have measured wrong (thats pretty easy since that one is made for cameras, not cartridges). I actually have a picture that Wittner sent me during a lengthy conversation about this topic: I have used like 50 cartridges of WIttner's 100D and never seen a different notch. Some very early verisons had a Tungsten Notch though.

See http://www.peaceman.de/blog/index.php/super-8-notch-ruler-new-and-improved to find out all about your camera and how it treats what notch. The advice you got might also vary because not all E100D is notched the same way (Wittner e.g. notches it as 64D). Anyway: The E100D has enormous exposure tolerance. Best is to try it out with a test cartridge.

Thats right, the new Vision 500T is e.g. notched as 400D (!). Odd.

Good starting point: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=144271 It does require quite some fiddling, but its fun. And free.

Folks, since I could not stand the confusion about S8 cartridge notches any more and got trapped by the "old" Notch Ruler myself, I created some new tools to get and provide ultimate clarity on ASA-Notches (and how Cameras read them) once and for all. Here is the blog post incl. download -- any feedback greatly appreciated! Oh, since english is not my mother tongue, let me know if anything sounds odd or should better be said in a different way. F

Thats great insight, Carl -- and a very good read! I recently wanted to "try out whats possible" and got a roll of Super-8 Ektachrome 100D (exposed in my Nikon R10) scanned by some guy in Holland who has built the IMHO best frame scanner ever, at least in the 2K space. I then used avisynth (and an altered version of Freddy van der Putten's script) to "increase resolution" (among other things). During this I also scaled the scans down to 720p -- this is s single frame result: Before avisynth optimization, the (almost) same frame looked like this. Its indeed quite impressive what software can do, especially free software in this case. And its even more impressive how much data such a little spool actually contains (and how failure tolerant its "encoding" is!)

That would be sweet indeed. No other slide film can be crossed that well, too... I doubt it exists though. Try E100D -- it has quite simliar colors and colorspace, hence not crossable that well.

I absolutely love it!

Just because I posted this somewhere else a minute ago and fits here, this is a quick DIY guide for altering cartridge notches easily to make the camera recognize the actual film stock used. The (cellphone-)photos show making an adapter to close the Tungsten notch, altering the ASA notch width works the same way though. All you need is some oil/vaseline and some solid ribbon epoxy 1: Lubricate the cartridge where the ribbon epoxy will go. Below I used too much oil, use a Q-Tip or so to remove it. Vaseline should work too. 2: Knead the ribbon epoxy well and fill it in the gap. Make sure there are no overlaps thus the cartridge does not get bigger than it was before. Stick a paperclip (or that Q-Tip) in the glue to make removing the part later on easier. 3: The finished Notch-Closer, ready after few minutes. Fits perfectly. Before full hardening, you can model the result with an x-acto-knife or so quite well to make it fit even better. To alter the ASA notch width, do the same but shorten the resulting piece per Notch Ruler. This works great in cameras that do not allow manual exposure override.