Heikki Repo

Yes, that's exactly the issue @aapo lettinen has mentioned a couple of times - there are lots of people who like to kick the tires, but don't actually want to buy anything. Anyway, I'm intrigued as in "I might be interested in pursuing this and paying". The front I have in the photos is an extra one so testing m4/3 would not cause damage that's difficult to repair. The main benefit would be the larger quantity of (modern) lenses designed for a smaller frame size being available. Lenses for 16mm tend to be either vintage and/or very expensive. So, if you have some estimates of the cost, please let me know!

One would need to remove the C-mount & TS-mount and shave a bit off of the front in order to install the m4/3 mount.

Not that long ago Mutascan posted on social media a photo of a large quantity ("batch 1/5") of 16mm 500T being "ready to ship out". If Mutascan doesn't have any available in their online shop, then that all must be reserved for some big production. No need to wonder where it all has gone :) https://www.instagram.com/p/CbxJxYqtXEj/

Could @Tim Tyler help us with this issue? :)

Thanks Gregg. The real challenge is to locate people who have experience with ACLs and are willing to also work on them.

It would be interesting to know how these bearings should feel like "out of factory". As I mentioned in an another thread, I have new old stock "claw control spindle assemblies". If someone has the knowledge how to take one apart and put back together, we could orchestrate an effort to get one reimpregnated and see if there's a difference in the force required for turning it.

Sometimes the most unexpected things happen. I decided to try once more putting it all together. First result, stuck. I moved then the shim piece downwards along the Z axis (thumb up axis). The end result? It works! Tightened the screws, but not with force. Now this movement has the lowest friction of all the ones I have looked at, which is not surprising, since it's the only one that has been cleaned really thoroughly. It seems that the shim really is there to fine tune the Y-axis. Of course, it won't be until I run any of these with a motor that I know whether I was succesful or not, with film tests being the final judge. Anyway, currently it seems that I have at least been able to get this plane moving, things starting to look promising...

I think you should try asking for them in some forum for current video shooters. There are always people who used to use ACLs in the 90s or 80s and might still have it in their closet - but might not visit this forum. DVXUser, RedUser, DVInfo

Thanks Gregg! I have had my 400ft mag drop off when I forgot to put the clothespin to secure it. Unfortunately, the mag was loaded (everything on the supply side) and as a consequence of the hit, the spool axle support was slightly bent and the mag was stuck. Furthermore, I had just received the mag back from service from Bernie. I asked if he had a replacement and he told me no; he just hammers them back to shape. This was the first repair job I did on my ACL (mag). I wasn't fully able to hammer it back, but with a combination if hammering and adding a spacer in the other side I was able to solve it. Now I have replacement axles, so I'll return it back to original specs. Anyway, the risks of dropping the mags are real, so doing this "upgrade" could really be worth it. One just has to remember that some ACLs might have stronger spring force than others, so if the mag is modified, it might not be easy to remove on a different ACL.

Haha, really well said! But honestly - I come from the OCD land, so starting to take these cameras apart didn't come to me all that naturally at all. I might have gotten a nudge from an older DoP who had also taken an Arriflex 35 apart in the desert and put it back together and who pushed me forward with this... In fact I'm happy that this one particular ACL is a bit more problematic. It's pushing me forward to challenge myself and learn more. I could probably read numerous general books on mechanics, but most likely a considerable number of techs have learned their trade through practical doing and, I argue, unavoidably also destroying something in the process. While I hope to be careful enough to avoid breaking anything, there is a reason why it's electronics wizards themselves who speak of components letting out "magic smoke" without which they no longer work. Without taking risks one can't learn new skills or achieve anything. I admit that secretly I hope I could have learned these things straight from someone who has learned in the Eclair factory or even from a general cine tech. There is a - I think - three year course for learning to become a still camera tech by Kameratori here, but since I'm quite happy with my current lines of work and working on my doctoral dissertation, I think I can learn best by just trying my wings with this ACL, even if it might crash land ?

Here's the shim, that seems to be factory fine tuned in every camera: These are the screws I mean: Both photos from a well working, low friction movement.

Not to mention that originally even in the spares most of these parts are available only as full assemblies.

So, last night I went further down the road of (partial) rebuild. I carefully first removed MIN 30E and the mirror assembly MIN 75E. Cleaned the MIN 30E surfaces and the opposing control shaft bearing 25E surfaces. The MIN 30E had very good, low friction feel to it. I then proceeded to remove transmission shaft assembly MIN 52E. I could now clean all dirt from the surfaces between it and MIN 25E. Also, could confirm that the shutter spindle assembly MIN 40E has low friction too, spins easily. Putting it all back together and then again removing the transmission shaft assembly shows that without the transmission shaft assembly, the claw+control shaft bearing+magazine drive spindle+mirror have very low friction and work great together. This would point the issue being located in the transmission shaft assembly. I'm not yet fully certain if the shaft has some friction or not, it's more difficult to assess. However, another point to consider is the angle of the gears MIN 53 SE and 54 SE. The assembly can be adjusted a bit with the adjustment shim MIN 57. If the transmission shaft assembly is put in its place with the shim in the same place as it was originally and I tighten the screws fully, the whole movement becomes tight with tightness varying in different positions. However, if I don't tighten the MIN40E screws, the movement works more freely. Now then, it's difficult to say how tight these screws were to begin with, since they had been closed off with varnish and paint. I'll next try to visually compare them with my other ACLs. Nonetheless, to summarize: If there is a risk of self lubricating pieces having dried out, I didn't feel anything like that in three out of the four shafts and judging the fourth one is difficult. Either way, the issue is with the transmission shaft assembly.

Yes, let's do that. Time to end sloppiness on that front! The friction is present even when the mirror/magazine drive spindle (MIN 30E) is disconnected. Furthermore, at least when that spindle is connected, the friction seems to be higher at one specific point of the mirror. The previous three ACLs had old, dirty grease too and cleaning it out and replacing with new made the movement turn really well without friction. Then again, this one was totally stuck when I began my work, whereas the others weren't in that bad condition to begin with.

Here's a photo of a spare main drive. I suspect there is dirt under the cover, in this photo left to the bearing on the middle. But I'll know for sure only after I have removed the piece from the camera.

Yes, that's something I was thinking. For my use replicating the original function where a "zero" reference exposure is set and the leds then show half stop difference to it would be sufficient, but it's definitely great to know of all the possibilities there are with the help of modern components!

This quite useful. I have cleaned and relubed now one French 400ft mag, but I didn't take them fully apart nor did I go for the ball bearings as I couldn't get the information necessary for this operation from anyone I asked.

The question I have is really "how does that led block work?" so seeing if voltage changes depending on different light conditions might give me some clue how seven leds are driven with three wires ?

That's how I became aware of this matter too, though on Facebook. I tend to have faith in his tech.

This particular ACL base is non-standard (closer to ACL2 in size). It is without lightmeter electronics and the original electronics don't function. For my use case and for many others too due to ergonomics it's better to try to fit the new electronics including LCD in the base. That way the camera doesn't become bigger and the pre-existing XLR connector can be used. By the way Duncan, if you have the lightmeter, I would be interested in finding out what voltages are present in the wires that go to the leds. I have an ACL head with the ldr resistor and the leds, but not the necessary electronics in the base and would like to try to build replacement for it. Three wires go to the 7-led block, I can give you their colors...

...and other features too, from single-system audio to Eclair timecode solution!

The very big issue with that website is the whole ACL1/1.5/2 categorization. Apart from the late ACL2, there are just ACLs with a variety of different motors and viewfinders at different points of time. I'm also curious about the shutter driveshaft. I have opened one early ACL and three later models and couldn't really recognize any considerable difference between them. I think I could open that particular one again and compare it to those that I have open now - perhaps there is some difference. Nonetheless there is loads of questionable information online. It might very well be that even the "early motor can't work with 400ft mags" is a myth caused by unmaintained magazines and cameras being too much for them.

I'm not the one making the motor, but I think that I speak for Aapo when I say that animation/timelapse motors are a different category of motor compared to this one. This motor builds upon the previous work Aapo has done and in those control boxes minimum fps has been around 3-5 fps.

It's ultimately about finding a balance between the extremely careful, OCD like relationship to one's camera ("I have to buy an expensive service before every shoot just to be sure, even if I haven't used my camera that much and it seems to work well") and a too relaxed approach ("this is how I remove pieces from my camera without any fear of breaking something by taking it apart in a mess and pushing carelessly with my screwdriver"). If it's a 60-90k camera used for award winning TV-series, please don't open it unless you know what you are doing. If it's a camera body that would essentially lie unused due to dried, messy lubricants and you wouldn't send it overseas for servicing in any case, why not learn a bit about how it works, try to service it, learn as much as possible from different sources. As for ACL, what I have learned from those who have collected such information more than I have over decades and who have serviced ACLs themselves is that 1) they don't have names for some specific lubricants. Thus I went for Klüber Isoflex LDS 18 Special and Nye #140B clock oil. Furthermore, never are these ACLs going to run through as much film as they did when they were used by a TV station. 2) I have manual pages for correct way to set the shutter/mirror sync. No way would I have done it otherwise ? The question about the self lubricating parts is interesting. ACL2 manual says that "The four drive shafts run in selflubrificated bearings and the camera mechanism should NEVER be oiled." Obviously, "never" might not mean 50 years later. The very important question is, do service houses such as VP do something about those self lubricated bearings when they rebuild ACLs? As I mentioned, one ACL movement is giving me a bit of an headache, because unlike previous ones, cleaning old grease and regreasing didn't solve everything. The funny thing is though that this is officially ACL2, so youngest of them all. Were it the other way around, I'd first have thought that it must be the self lubrication having run out. I'm still betting on dirt under main drive cover. But I'll probably know more after I remove the vertical shaft and see how much there is friction in the main drive after that. At least I have new old stock spares for the main horizontal drive shaft so I could replace it.

I have no doubt Tyler has worked on ACLs. They are nice and simple, even I have opened several. Mirror/shutter timing seems relatively easy to work with, clean and relube too (though I'm still trying to find the cause for some strange stiffness in one of them. We'll see if I go as far as try to replace the main drive with a spare). Still, there are things like adjusting the pull-down claw or removing the ground glass or checking FFD that I have no idea how to do, and what I have done thus far might not pass a real pro tech's bar. I'm an amateur and before this January, I didn't really even know how the movement looks like. So, please don't send your ACLs to me ?