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Hi, is this skin tone ''normal''?

 

I use a vectorscope but often don't find it completely useful.

 

Even when I make clearly incorrect hue adjustments, the vector still shows I'm pretty much on the line.

 

Anyway, probably a thousand year old question at this point.

 

Any pointers on your skin tone processes would be greatly appreciated.

 

FS7 Slog3 original

 

http://iplayerhd.com/player/video/759af92c-c0cd-484c-ab5d-127998dc9353/share

 

Dave

 

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The skin tones seemed eerily flat. Could you post a clip of the raw file so we could try playing with it ourselves?

 

To be honest the audio I heard in this video is going to be more of a deterrent than the skin tones.

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Yeah, I'll post a Slog file later, cheers.

 

The most unfortunate thing for me regarding the skin tone is that it's exactly the same colour as the background, I can not really isolate or mask it to further adjust.

 

I'm pretty sure those cupboards in the background weren't much more vibrant than this. Anyway, thanks.

 

This is a video for Insta - a half decent mic was used, mono, in a poop sounding kitchen, obviously. It has a reasonable audio level (around -3), with no clipping or distortion, and has been normalised.

 

I will apply some equalisation before it goes to client and that's that.

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Eq'd some harsher frequencies out and sounding a bit more pleasant.

 

Attached is a screen grab of my latest colour and link to the raw file (non processed audio).

 

Feel free to experiment, looking forward to seeing what you come up with

 

In reflection, regarding lighting, I may have used too much fill resulting in the flat look face

 

 

https://wetransfer.com/downloads/c3389376e106a846bb4037abce21ec6420180629075002/c9c85e

 

 

post-70457-0-24218800-1530436680_thumb.png

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I'd like to say, after grading this footage I'm on the same boat as Tyler, FS7 SLOG sucks to grade. Mids are tricky to make look good.

 

She might look a little more tan than usual, but I wasn't physically there so I'm embracing what looks good on my screen. I managed to get more independent shades and highlights in the skin.

 

ddnqf.png

Edited by Macks Fiiod

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Are you grading in resolve etc.. the camera really needs to be in Cine EI with the correct color gamut.. shooting slog in Custom mode isnt a great idea.. grading in something like FCP also you won't get the best results .. you need to be in dedicated grading software like Resolve.. hate to say it,.. but there are plenty of people getting very good results from Fs7 /F5 Slog.. but there are many people would dont understand log.. camera settings or post.. Tylers past troubles were unfortunately shown to be totally user error .. to be blunt.. when you know what your doing its totally fine.. Slog3 is almost identical to LogC.. and there are many examples on line on very nice looking footage .. but you really need the correct camera settings in the first place, correct software to grade with..and a grader who has experience with log footage.. less that this better to shoot custom in the first place or burn in a LUT..

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The skintones look fine to me. I'm not seeing anything untoward with them. Here's what I got from a quick pass in Resolve:

B0PSatU.jpg

And another version, with the saturation pulled out of the background to allow her skintones to pop her out a bit more:

gbJjl9f.jpg

Edited by Mark Kenfield

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It might just be the production design (sorry), the look of all of these seems... synthetic no matter the grade.

The frame is what it is. I think the pertinent point is that the camera is doing its job just fine.

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Hi, is this skin tone ''normal''?

 

I use a vectorscope but often don't find it completely useful.

 

Even when I make clearly incorrect hue adjustments, the vector still shows I'm pretty much on the line.

 

Anyway, probably a thousand year old question at this point.

 

Any pointers on your skin tone processes would be greatly appreciated.

 

FS7 Slog3 original

 

http://iplayerhd.com/player/video/759af92c-c0cd-484c-ab5d-127998dc9353/share

 

Dave

 

I haven't downloaded the original file, but I played with the still photo you posted. I don't think this is a question about "skin tones", but an issue of basic color correction skills and original photography skills. I've attached a correction to the still photograph that is more normalized, basically by just adjusting the black and white levels and gamma curve.

 

But this is probably insufficient to make you happy. The original lighting does a poor job of separating the model from the wall behind her, and the angle of the light used is not flattering for the shape of her face, making some unpleasant shadows. It's not an issue of "too much fill light", but of facial shadows in the wrong places. It seems you've lit her from camera left and camera right leaving shadows around her nose.

 

What is difficult here is that this is a woman who will benefit from being lit from the direction of the camera, and possibly a little bit higher than the camera. But that will make it a challenge to flag the light off the wall behind her as she is so close to it. A back light would also have been helpful, but would require rigging it behind her and above the frame as a light stand would be in frame.

 

In the future, keep in mind wall color and distance from model to wall when scouting locations. In this case, you've literally backed yourself into a corner where there is no easy lighting solution.

 

And lastly, the big white flower vase on the left of frame is a big distraction from your subject. I think you would have been better off not using it.

 

I am writing all this not to suggest that you are bad at your job, but really to illustrate that the main issue is not your skills with color correction (though you will probably want to practice this skill), but the solution, in the future, is to think about this situation before you select your next location and set up your lighting.

post-4387-0-19566800-1530608190_thumb.jpg

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I did it in Resolve. I don't use LUTs as I've been advised against it in the past by various colorists due to their overuse in the past.

 

 

BTW I didnt mean to be rude in my previous post.. Im not at all saying I know what Im doing re grading.. I dont at all..Im not a grader.. but for the last almost 5 years Ive shot only one time with a camera other than a F5 or F55.. literally thousands of hours of XAVC Slog3.cine.. for long episodic shows.. 2 were 6 weeks each.. hundreds of corps for Boeing/Apple/Netflix/Cisco/ JP Morgan/Toyota etc.. in all sorts of environments.. Im currently shooting for Natgeo in WW2 bunkers in a Typhoon !.. my point being I read alot people saying Slog is crap.. its not.. if a grader has experience and the proper software.. and well shot footage.. technically if not aesthetically ..! very good images can be produced ..

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I did it in Resolve. I don't use LUTs as I've been advised against it in the past by various colorists due to their overuse in the past.

 

Look luts are overused, flim emulation for example. Using a lut to transform from slog/sgamut to the colorspace you are working in is vital in my opinion. This ensures you are starting from a neutral base and reduces the risk of adding odd colors. It is better now with the later versions of slog as they are more friendly to grading without conversion luts. I have recently been using ACES alot more with slog/sgamut footage and it has made a world of difference, once you apply the proper IDT for the footage you end up with a nice neutal image that is a pleasure to grade.

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for the last almost 5 years Ive shot only one time with a camera other than a F5 or F55.. literally thousands of hours of XAVC Slog3.cine.. for long episodic shows.. 2 were 6 weeks each.. hundreds of corps for Boeing/Apple/Netflix/Cisco/ JP Morgan/Toyota etc.. in all sorts of environments.. Im currently shooting for Natgeo in WW2 bunkers in a Typhoon !.. my point being I read alot people saying Slog is crap.. its not.. if a grader has experience and the proper software.. and well shot footage.. technically if not aesthetically ..! very good images can be produced ..

I'm not sitting here doubting what the industry uses, but because big shows will use it doesn't always mean it's ideal. I don't know what log curve system Blackmagic uses, but it's infinitely easier to play around with in comparison to the file format Doherty provided. RED in my experience has also proven to be easier.

 

Is there a newer form of Hypergamma that the newer Sony cameras can use? I find that to look great out of the box.

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Bruce pretty much nailed the issues with the footage. There isn't an inherent issue with the skintone so much as limitations in the original photography.

 

I took it into Resolve to quickly see how far it could be taken. Below is what my attempt would look like if a client asked me to make it look as commercial as possible. Adjustments included:

 

-Stock Sony LUT

-Basic balance

-Isolated wall (it's pretty easy to isolate from the skin/wardrobe). Darkened and pulled yellow out of wall.

-Took down vase in midtones

-Isolated skin, midtones down, gain up

-Sculpted a hint of a soft shadow on face/body to give light a sense of direction

-Little sharpening on eyes

 

post-29328-0-84795500-1530649785_thumb.jpg

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I'm not sitting here doubting what the industry uses, but because big shows will use it doesn't always mean it's ideal. I don't know what log curve system Blackmagic uses, but it's infinitely easier to play around with in comparison to the file format Doherty provided. RED in my experience has also proven to be easier.

 

Is there a newer form of Hypergamma that the newer Sony cameras can use? I find that to look great out of the box.

 

They are probably easier to use as they are not that "strong " a log gama curve.. what the C300,s used to call log was the same as hyper gamma curves in Sony's.. and only needed a very slight adjustment as they are basically REC 709 curves ... Slog3.cine is the same as Arri LogC.. on purpose as so many professional graders know how to deal with LogC.. you can use the same LUT,s.. nothing wired or unusual about it.. Slog2 is tricker though..

 

Don't think there is a new hyper gamma curve ?.. Venice has an "improved" rec 709 color space..

Edited by Robin R Probyn

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Slog-3 needs to be consistently shot 2 Stops over. Anything below 30IRE is essentially mush. I've had many battles with Sony Footage in my grading suite. It's not like Arri, Varicam or RED footage, where exposing skintones 1-2 stops under can be quite pleasing or skin color is well separated. Sony needs you to expose spot on - always. I stopped working with sony cameras for that reason.

 

The scene seems to be lit with two different color temperatures. This can be weird on skin tones, especially with Slog3. I think that might be why you are seeing odd color shifts in the skin tone highlights compared to the "shadow "levels of the skin. The skin is quite evenly lit, which is why it might be hard to tell. You might be correct with 80% of her skin, but the highlights will be shifted into yellow or red. Or vis versa.

 

The vectorscope shows you a cloud of pixels and their corresponding saturation and hue. The skin tone indicator is a generalisiation of all variation of skin tone complexions. You need to make adjustments in relation to your talents actual skin color as well as the surrounding. A cool winter scenes, will need cooler skin tones, than say a bilstering desert.

 

I'm not in my studio at the moment, otherwise I'd give it a go.

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Yes alot of people "over expose" Slog by a stop or even two.. but thats for noise concerns.. not skin tones.. I dont think the scene we are talking about would really need that .. Slog doesn't always have to be shot that way though.. Ive shot hundreds of hours of slog3.cine at the "native" ISO.. and its been totally fine.. TBH.. and as proven on all the Sony fs7/F5/55 forums over the years .. the problems with Slog are all to do with people not really understanding the grading process..,trying to grade in edit software only.. or how to set exposures in the first place.. Slog2 I would agree is alot tricker ..and I believe Venice is only Slog3 (.cine)

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S-Log3, as does S-Log2, needs to exposed correctly in camera, otherwise the colors fall apart. I've shot very dark low light scenes with the F55 and FS7 and both times I over exposed by two stops or more with S-Log3, to keep the waveform above 20-30IRE. The reason is that the sensor is rated for 2000ISO, but's "actually" a 500 ISO rating. The sensor has it's best performance at a 2000ISO rating, but it's an experience of mine that anything under 20-30 IRE is broken in terms of noise and color. Noise affects color, as it's not just a little luma noise as with other cameras, but a rather heavy chrome noise. When I talk about the IRE, I'm referencing the LOG-Gamma, not the translated Image to Rec709. So a S-Log3 Image, and it's entire spectrum on the waveform being between 50-10, would be massively underexposed and therefor the skin tones would also be damaged.

 

I've graded a lot of S-Log material and this has been my personal findings. That whenever it's "properly" exposed, as in above 20-30IRE, the material holds well, whereas if it's exposed at base ISO, the material tends to break apart if the image is at the lower end. Especially in high speed footage.

Edited by Axel Rothe

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The reason is that the sensor is rated for 2000ISO, but's "actually" a 500 ISO rating. The sensor has it's best performance at a 2000ISO rating

The F55s 'native' ISO is actually 1250, not 2000. Using these cameras at native ISO gives you the best spread of over and underexposure relative to mid gray. However, most people find them a little too noisy when rated this way, and so usually overexpose them by rating them at 800, which is a reasonable trade-off between noise in the shadows and highlight handling. The F55 also has a different CFA and improved color science than the FS7.

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S-Log3, as does S-Log2, needs to exposed correctly in camera, otherwise the colors fall apart. I've shot very dark low light scenes with the F55 and FS7 and both times I over exposed by two stops or more with S-Log3, to keep the waveform above 20-30IRE. The reason is that the sensor is rated for 2000ISO, but's "actually" a 500 ISO rating. The sensor has it's best performance at a 2000ISO rating, but it's an experience of mine that anything under 20-30 IRE is broken in terms of noise and color. Noise affects color, as it's not just a little luma noise as with other cameras, but a rather heavy chrome noise. When I talk about the IRE, I'm referencing the LOG-Gamma, not the translated Image to Rec709. So a S-Log3 Image, and it's entire spectrum on the waveform being between 50-10, would be massively underexposed and therefor the skin tones would also be damaged.

 

I've graded a lot of S-Log material and this has been my personal findings. That whenever it's "properly" exposed, as in above 20-30IRE, the material holds well, whereas if it's exposed at base ISO, the material tends to break apart if the image is at the lower end. Especially in high speed footage.

 

 

Sure maybe so in your experience .. but the OP,s clip I dont think is really being affected by any EI off set..

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