Help needed - Eclair ACL Losing Loops

[Aaron Yang]

Hi everyone,

Recently I just got the test roll of my Eclair ACL, I found it very frustrating when I pulled the magazine out and engaged it again, the image became double-exposure-like or flared, the footage before I pulled the magazine out looks perfectly fine.

So is there any way to check if the loop is still there when the magazine is attached to the camera?  Should I keep shooting and not pull out the magazine or change the magazine if the roll is not done?

I emailed Nicki, and she told me there should be 12 perforations and that should push it back in with the same slack of film, I wonder if should I push the top part of the bottom part back. 

Also, should I send the camera for maintenance if the camera runs ok? Is there any place recommended for ACL maintenance?

Thank you so much everyone! I really appreciate the knowledge of film cameras and Eclair here!

Edited April 12 by Aaron Yang
change tittle

[Tyler Purcell]

Bring it over someday, I'm in VAN NUYS. I can figure it out. 

[Jon O'Brien]

The world desperately needs new and up and coming motion picture film camera repair technicians.

[Kamran Pakseresht]

Paul at Visual Products is an Eclair expert- definitely can recommend them.

That being said, this doesn’t immediately sound like an issue with the camera itself - Nicki is right that you want to evenly distribute the slack on each side when you push your loop in and it’s possible it got shifted when you removed the magazine and the re-engaged it later.

Try shooting another 100ft roll- without ever removing the magazine, if it comes out perfect, then it’s likely operator error and you can just adjust your workflow to watch out for issues like this.

And yes - I usually tell anyone looking to buy a used film camera to factor in a few hundred dollars for a CLA - just so you can ensure it’s running smoothly, quietly, and will last a long time. Because you’re in LA, you can probably save a big chunk of change in not having to ship it out by having Tyler take a look at it.

Edited April 12 by Kamran Pakseresht

[Dom Jaeger]

Like Kamran said, what probably happened is either the loop shifted when you removed the mag or when you re-engaged the mag the claw missed the first perf and the loop shifted up. Always check the loop is centred or even has a little extra at the bottom before fitting a mag, and manually inch the camera over to engage the claw with the first perf. Listen to the sound as well when running to get used to how it should sound, usually you can hear if there's a problem.

So likely just operator error, but if you want to have it checked, I second Visual Products, great techs with lots of experience.

[Tyler Purcell]

3 hours ago, Jon O'Brien said:

The world desperately needs new and up and coming motion picture film camera repair technicians.

Nobody has interest because current techs, simply have no interest in teaching. The current techs are scared to lose their livelihood, so they vehemently retain their knowledge and then suddenly pass away or retire without a trace. It took me 30 years to find a willing tech and I'm grateful for my time with them. 

Meanwhile, I offer my services to a local user, for a problem that I can teach the client how to solve for the future and have a good look at the camera to make sure it doesn't have any problem and I get ridiculed and laughed at for the mere suggestion. 

[Gregg MacPherson]

Aaron,

Assuming that the equipment is OK......

It's a good idea to control the loop sizes, and the position of the perf in the film gate, and the position of the claw. The mirror parking will leave the claw always in the same place. The manual mirror motor, you will have a routine that leaves the mirror and claw almost the same.

When loading, while setting the loops,  shift a perf in the gate so it's just below the claw. The claw will catch it every time, quiet starts and you will keep your ideal loop sizes. Like Dom says, manual inching to engage the claw is best. Make it part of your protocol.

Get some clean scrap film to practice loading. You can run the loop tests/scratch test with the door off. Adjust your loading protocols as above and check that your method works.  Then you can pull mags as often as you need without any concern over the loops.

If you have any doubt about your mag or method, after mounting a fresh mag on the camera just pull the door and run a few frames.

Have fun.

[Aaron Yang]

On 4/11/2024 at 7:52 PM, Tyler Purcell said:

Bring it over someday, I'm in VAN NUYS. I can figure it out. 

Thank you so much Tyler, I watch Cine Workbench a lot I really appreciate it! Can I have your contact?

[Aaron Yang]

On 4/11/2024 at 8:55 PM, Kamran Pakseresht said:

Paul at Visual Products is an Eclair expert- definitely can recommend them.

That being said, this doesn’t immediately sound like an issue with the camera itself - Nicki is right that you want to evenly distribute the slack on each side when you push your loop in and it’s possible it got shifted when you removed the magazine and re-engaged it later.

Try shooting another 100ft roll- without ever removing the magazine, if it comes out perfect, then it’s likely operator error and you can just adjust your workflow to watch out for issues like this.

And yes - I usually tell anyone looking to buy a used film camera to factor in a few hundred dollars for a CLA - just so you can ensure it’s running smoothly, quietly, and will last a long time. Because you’re in LA, you can probably save a big chunk of change in not having to ship it out by having Tyler take a look at it.

Thank you so much, Kamran! Yes visual products is quite far and I would try to contact local experts first, but visual products is awesome I heard they bought all the Arri bl4 cameras from Arri.

I also think that's because the loop got shifted, but I don't know if I can maintain the loop because if you push the slack back and forth it's gonna interfere with the slack inside the magazine, which can't be seen if you detached the magazine. Unlike Arriflex 416, which can maintain and adjust the loop to the exact same place every time you take off the magazine(also the slack is outside of the magazine).

Yes I'll try to shoot a 100ft roll without detaching the magazine if that's good then it should be OK. I'll visit Tyler and try to work it out with him.

 

[Tyler Purcell]

5 hours ago, Aaron Yang said:

Thank you so much Tyler, I watch Cine Workbench a lot I really appreciate it! Can I have your contact?

Hit me up info@narrowgaugefilms.com

[steven jackson]

The ACL has a warning clicker incorporated in the magazine to warn you if it has lost loop.  Very audible.  If you didn't hear this while filming then there may be another issue.

[steven jackson]

Also, the method for measuring the right amount of film to create loops is not counting off 12 frames...that's the NPR.  Download the ACL manual online for a very clear explanation on how to load the magazine properly and get the right amount of loop.