16mm bolex scratches /or scan problems?

[Matteo BONADDIO]

I can't seem to identify why or where theses straight lines are coming from. Theses lines are not on the entire rolls, they come and go.

I've completely cleaned my bolex multiple times.

 

Any ideas ?

 

 

[Robert Houllahan]

Vertical scratches are usually something in the camera gate or loop path.

Processing scratches usually move left-right and can be a piece of debris trapped in a squeegee for example.

If this was scanned on a Spirit or Scannity there may be a chance that there is some dirt in the aperture slit on the scanner.

[Matteo BONADDIO]

Cleaned the Bolex more than once, still happening.

Thinking the loop formers are slightly scratching the film when being shot. The straight line come and go during the same roll. Meaning that during shooting, the loops are slightly moving up and down, scratching the film as it moves along.

Ever heard of it ? Sound possible ? 

[Simon Wyss]

No. In case everything is adjusted correctly and functions properly the open loop formers are out of the way of the automatically threaded film. You can, of course, provoke scratches by lacing the film by hand, making one loop or both too wide or too tight.

There are people who force the lid on the housing against the resistance of the loop former lever pointing downwards and or a/the film guide/s around the sprocket rollers open. With the spring-loaded guides and automatic opening loop formers from serial nr. 178471 on that problem went away until the introduction of the film guides retaining fork of the magazine models. Guides and formers must be unbent, adjusted, free from bruises. Older examples tend to have the chromium plating flaking off the loop formers.

I can only recommend to follow the instructions Paillard gave, with one exception. The film’s head is better cut to the form of an arrow precisely the way Paillard discouraged to do. Automatic threading then always works faultlessly. Most built-in cutters are blunt anyway. A pair of scissors in the camera case is worth gold, especially for polyester-base film.

[Matteo BONADDIO]

Hey,

Re-Bumping this conversation.

Lines are still happening.

Is it possible that it's the super 16 gate modification on my bolex that is scracthig the film in some way?

Because most of the lines are on the left side of the image (like image 2 )

[Giray Izcan]

It sounds like a problem with the s16 conversion.. rollers and guides in the path are required to be modified for super 16 as well to avoid film scratches.

[Fabian Schreyer]

That is correct, of course. But none of the scratches that he has shown us could be from non-modified parts.

[Jon O'Brien]

That's some pretty noticeable scratches you've got there. I've never seen camera negative look like that, but I've seen film prints shown on projectors that have scratches exactly like it. Usually a burr of metal or similar somewhere in the film path I think.

I don't get the feeling it's your film gate. Or maybe anything to do with the Super 16 modification. Because I'd be inclined to think that in that case any scratches would be in line with where the old regular 16mm frame line was or between there and the sprocket holes. Bear in mind though I'm not a camera tech.

Edited March 26 by Jon O'Brien

[Matteo BONADDIO]

Yes very noticeable, I've received to different scans today.

One with no lines at all. Another with the same lines happening sometimes, most of the times at the begining of a take. then goes away or stays during that take depends. 

Could this help identify the problem ?

[Jon O'Brien]

On 3/27/2025 at 9:10 AM, Matteo BONADDIO said:

.. most of the times at the begining of a take...

Okay, well that suggests to me that it's a camera problem, not processing. I'd get it in a good light, get some magnification happening, and take a really good and careful look at every single mm of pathway that that film is taking inside the film compartment. If you really can find nothing then indeed this is a mysterious problem.

Like I said, I'm not a camera technician, but those scratches look very neatly-made and uniformly 'cut'. Therefore, I'd suggest that the scratch is being made at some point in the film compartment where the film is travelling at a constant rate, as in, not in the gate area, where the film stops and starts. But don't quote me. I could be wrong.

Edited March 28 by Jon O'Brien

[Dom Jaeger]

Generally camera scratches are repetitive, unless it's a piece of debris that can shift position. But if it's part of the camera, the mechanical nature of the transport mechanism tends to repeat the scratches. 

None of the scratching shown corresponds to S16 modification. The gate is enlarged on the right side of the image, the same area where sprocket rollers and the gate rails should be machined back. So this doesn't appear to be S16 related. 

The only part of a Bolex that could potentially scratch in the middle areas would be if over long screws were accidentally fitted to the gate (remove the pressure plate and check that the 4 screws in the middle part of the gate are not protruding past the surface), or if the loop is slipping and a loop former is hitting the film. Loop former scratches would be intermittent, not continuous. Do you check that the loop stays centred after auto-loading the film and opening the loop formers? The loop should oscillate between the loop formers, and avoid touching them. If the sprockets are not properly timed to the claw for auto-loading, the loop can slip up once the loop formers are opened. 

If those aspects are OK, I would be looking elsewhere for a cause.

I should mention, you can also perform a quick scratch test to confirm the camera is ok. Just run some clean film through (ie not an old, already scratched dummy roll), maybe a few feet. Then before removing it, mark with a sharpie where the film enters and exits the gate, and where it touches the sprockets. Examine the film closely for scratches. If you find something, note where the scratch begins and work out where it is relative to your marks. You should be able to pinpoint the part of the transport that is scratching.