Filmmaking and Girlfriends

[Josh Bass]

Sorry, came in late ---

 

"lets see a picture [of Daniel's girlfriend] or do you want us to take your word for it?"

 

That might constitute child pornography

 

 

My thoughts on this thread--

 

I had my girl help out on some of my admittedly amateurish productions, and sometimes it's okay, sometimes not. I think I tend to get snappy when stressed out (which I am on these things), so working together, not so good for us.

[Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith]

Hi,

If you are going into the service for the UK you should think about the BRMs (British Royal Marines) a couple of my friends from back home joined and they love it (even though they are in the thick of everything). I nearly joined when I was younger but luckily for me I decided to go a different route.

I think they technically are part of the navy aswell, I cant remember. It'll be more dangerous but probably more rewarding than the regular navy, unless you really love ships.

Cheers.

 

Funnily enough I was training for the Royal Marines a year ago, but then my parents persuaded me into college. Thing is.. Royal Marines, they're like the best non-special forces group in the world, the SBS only recruit from SAS and Royal marines. When we went to war with Iraq and took over some port it was a mixture of royal marines, navy seals, SAS. So yeh, it's pretty hardcore stuff lol.

[Guest]

"Thing is.. Royal Marines, they're like the best non-special forces group in the world,"

 

Ha! That's a laugh! Every one knows Canadian forces are the best. Any one mucks with Canada we'll hit them with a flaming submarine or crash a 50 year old helicopter on them!

 

RDCB

[Peter J DeCrescenzo]

Funnily enough I was training for the Royal Marines a year ago, but then my parents persuaded me into college. Thing is.. Royal Marines, they're like the best non-special forces group in the world, the SBS only recruit from SAS and Royal marines. When we went to war with Iraq and took over some port it was a mixture of royal marines, navy seals, SAS. So yeh, it's pretty hardcore stuff lol.

My apologies for these off-topic comments:

 

I'm pretty much a pacifist, so I think being a soldier is a Bad Idea, unless (especially these days) you're looking for A Good Way to Get Maimed or Killed In the Service of Fascists.

 

Instead of being a soldier, why not aspire to do something more useful and become a fireman, or a doctor, or -- heaven forbid -- a teacher, (or heck, perhaps a career in "film"), and so forth?

 

Life is not a video game, it's not online porn, and it's not about gambling-away your money, your health, or your life. Training to truly help other people/flora/fauna, instead of training to injure or kill them, is probably the most challenging and bravest thing you could ever do.

 

I wish you luck on your adventure.

[Guest Michael Collier II]

I'm reluctant to bring it up because it seems slightly off-topic and I swear it's not a ploy to get dates, but I sort of feel like the couple who plays together, stays together...I guess with that in mind, it'd be more fun to date a fellow AC than to date a 9-to-5 desk jockey

 

At this point I think dating someone in the film industry is the only way to go (my friends got mad at me when I said the new Producers movie was lacking because they made the non-play scenes too play like (check out the magenta setlight on the jail scene, and the blue light/dual spotlight on the lula love scene) just because I love talking about the finer points of filmmaking, and most want to chat about the actors and who they are married to and what level scientologist they are. I feel conflicted when I cant converse with a girl I am dating about the films we watch and the ones I make. I have heard enough 'sure dear, sounds nice' when I come back from set jazzed with energy because I came up with the coolest way to put a sunburst behind the jango-fet cut out in the comedy I am doing at the moment.

 

I feel that in a marrige or serious relationship you should at least share intrest in the main things. A devout christian shouldnt marry and athiest, they could never talk about religeon without getting mad at eachother. In the same sense I have yet to find anybody I can 'talk shop' with, which I use to expand the way I think about my craft.

 

though if I find a 9-5er who can keep up with me on film discussion, I could see dating her. Its just a matter of finding someone I know will never waver in their support for my life passion (in the end if I had to choose between the girl and filmmaking, well that would be hard to break to her that celuliod is more important than being with someone who cant understand that, something I have tried to explian on 4 occcasions)

 

my tool belt (which I have basically slept in for about 3 days, it's starting to chafe...)

 

Ok, annie your passion is admirable and makes me want to work harder to at least match your work ethic, but seriously you need help with that. take a ski vacation in Alaska. you can go film the northern lights and wildlife with me afterwards to relax and pay for the trip. j/k :lol:

 

Every one knows Canadian forces are the best. Any one mucks with Canada we'll hit them with a flaming submarine or crash a 50 year old helicopter on them!

 

Hahaha. You know there was a time when I would rip on anything canadian cause invariably Alaska is much better than canada, but given our politics these days I need to bite my tounge. Im going on a trip to europe this summer after I finnish shooting a documentary, and I think my backpack might sport a canuck flag. hey anyway you guys could annex alaska? I would love some national health care.

[Chien Huey]

This is why I love my parents and my closest friends, because they see what this means to me and they trust that I will make the decisions which are best for me.

 

I second Annie's statement. What really matters is that the people around you, your friends and family support you in your endeavour. In my case, I left a lucrative career in IT to pursue my DP aspirations. I'm still pretty early on in the process - shooting student films for little or no money. During the slower times when I'm between free gigs, sometimes I can help but wonder if I'm doing the right thing (normal self-doubts I suppose). That's when my friends and family really kick in. They tell me that bigger things are in the future and to stick with it. My dad has been great about this - in fact he's the one who really encouraged me to move to LA.

 

In the year or so that I've been involved in film, I've been single. So I really can't speak for first-hand experience about a "filmmaker's girlfriend". But my prior career was time-intensive also and it was very important that my girlfriends were supportive and trusting that I was at the office coding all night. That said, it's a two-way street and as David Mullen wrote just as you'd expect a girlfriend to be supportive - you have to be supportive of her. Perhaps the one night you wrap early (or in my case - a short day at the office), you don't go out drinking with your buddies.

 

One last thing, years ago before it even considered going into film I met this great girl. All the trappings of an aspiring DP's girlfriend - independent, frugal, supportive, etc. But I was young and foolish and went about chasing "fit girls" instead of pursuing her. Ironically, she's now an assistant editor out of Vancouver!

Edited January 6, 2006 by Fast Chieney

[Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith]

My apologies for these off-topic comments:

 

I'm pretty much a pacifist, so I think being a soldier is a Bad Idea, unless (especially these days) you're looking for A Good Way to Get Maimed or Killed In the Service of Facists.

 

Instead of being a soldier, why not aspire to do something more useful and become a fireman, or a doctor, or -- heaven forbid -- a teacher, (or heck, perhaps a career in "film"), and so forth?

 

Life is not a video game, it's not online porn, and it's not about gambling-away your money, your health, or your life. Training to truly help other people/flora/fauna, instead of training to injure or kill them, is probably the most challenging and bravest thing you could ever do.

 

I wish you luck on your adventure.

 

Well thankyou, but, to be honest I wouldn't have a chance at being a doctor, and teaching doesn't pay very well.

 

And besides, Royal Navy helps a bundle, delivering aid to 3rd world countries e.t.c.

 

And plus it pays very well. As it is I could go in as an officer now and after 2 years be earning £25,000 per year. And if I did very well, by the time I'm 30/40 I could be a commander earning £50/60,000 per year. Retire at 40, live of a high rate pension, get another job which relates to the job I did in the Navy and get paid a bundle there aswell, added with the pension £70/80,000 per year.

 

(And yes, apologies for going off topic....)

[Peter J DeCrescenzo]

Well thankyou, but, to be honest I wouldn't have a chance at being a doctor, and teaching doesn't pay very well. And besides, Royal Navy helps a bundle, delivering aid to 3rd world countries e.t.c. And plus it pays very well. As it is I could go in as an officer now and after 2 years be earning £25,000 per year. And if I did very well, by the time I'm 30/40 I could be a commander earning £50/60,000 per year. Retire at 40, live of a high rate pension, get another job which relates to the job I did in the Navy and get paid a bundle there aswell, added with the pension £70/80,000 per year.

You might ask yourself why the government is willing (must) pay so much to get people to be soldiers. I'll give you a clue: It isn't primarily because they highly value soldiers' services delivering humanitarian aid and such. The government knows something you don't: Being a soldier is probably one of the riskiest, most-likely-to-cause-injury-or-death occupations. But that's not the worst part. The worst part is that you get to perform this life-threatening work for Fascists, you know, people like George Bush and his good pal Tony Blair, who by the way, really, really, don't care if you live or die.

 

Or, you could do something _more_ brave, challenging and potentially rewarding: Something which doesn't involve learning how to maim or kill people. I didn't say it'll be easy. That's where the bravery and challenge comes in. Think about it. Best of luck, whatever you decide.

[Chris Keth]

This is why I love my parents and my closest friends, because they see what this means to me and they trust that I will make the decisions which are best for me. I broke up with a boyfriend because he accused me of being more in love with the camera than with him. Initially I was thinking that he could probably fall down, endure extreme temperatures, and withstand hits more readily than most cameras so therefore it was an unfair comparison, but I kept my mouth shut...

 

I held my best friend as she sobbed hysterically about how her Lighting and Field professor wants her to do everything on the project and how she doesn't know what she wants to do with her life after film school because she's afraid she won't make it. One of my friends extended a similar favor to me when I completely cracked after a very stressful shoot and realized that sometimes, you can't control everything. I snotted all over his jacket and was mortified to be seen crying so hard, let alone crying at all...but we still talk to each other and he has remained a pillar of support for me. :)

 

I'm reluctant to bring it up because it seems slightly off-topic and I swear it's not a ploy to get dates, but I sort of feel like the couple who plays together, stays together...I guess with that in mind, it'd be more fun to date a fellow AC than to date a 9-to-5 desk jockey, but that's just how I feel and other people may have different opinions! It does seem that a fair amount of people on this board have found love within the film industry, which is really cool. And now I sound like a hippie so I'll stop...

 

 

Yeah, not a ploy to get dates (I'm an AC, by the way ;) :D ). Anyway, it is really nice to have someone close, not necessarily a significant other, who knows what the film biz is like. My girlfriend is an ad photographer, which often has similar stresses and time-crunches, and we both try to be very supportive of each others. I've been cried on numerous times just as she's listened to me fume about stuff and calmed me down.

 

So, Annie, how about we go disassemble an A-minima sometime. I hear they're dead sexy on the inside :blink: :P ;)

 

 

 

 

 

You might ask yourself why the government is willing blah blah blah blah blah....

 

 

I don't know if I'm alone in this, but could you take the political discussion elsewhere, to PMs perhaps? I don't entirely disagree with what you're saying but I don't think this is the place. I have several friends in the military and they would certainly tell you what they're doing is an honorable service to their country. I don't think it's your place to look a gifthorse in the mouth, considering they're willing to put their life on the line for you and their other fellow citizens. I'm going to stop at that. <_<

Edited January 6, 2006 by Christopher D. Keth

[Guest]

"Hahaha. You know there was a time when I would rip on anything canadian cause invariably Alaska is much better than canada, but given our politics these days I need to bite my tounge. Im going on a trip to europe this summer after I finnish shooting a documentary, and I think my backpack might sport a canuck flag. hey anyway you guys could annex alaska? I would love some national health care."

 

Oh please as an Alaskan you would have the un-mitigated gaul to rip on Canada? If you where from one of the other 49 states, sure that would be fine, but Alaska? Yeah right :)

 

Don't laugh about Americans who pass themselves off as Canadians on world trips these days, there are Americans that actually do it!! I've been all over the globe and dislike of the USA is very real thing these days outside of the US. Which is a shame because there are many wonderful people in the US. I get confused for being an American all the time overseas, when I tell the person I'm Canadian they make this relieved face and start on a tirade about the USA. When I was in Argentina last week this happened several times. As you can all imagine the US has hit an all time low in Latin America.

 

As for annexing Alaska, yes we'll take Alaska in trade for Quebec.

 

Ok now what was this thread all about? Some thing to do with women and Daniel becoming some sort of half assed Rambo???????

 

R,

[Peter J DeCrescenzo]

... I don't know if I'm alone in this, but could you take the political discussion elsewhere, to PMs perhaps? I don't entirely disagree with what you're saying but I don't think this is the place. I have several friends in the military and they would certainly tell you what they're doing is an honorable service to their country. I don't think it's your place to look a gifthorse in the mouth, considering they're willing to put their life on the line for you and their other fellow citizens. ...

To my mind, the spirit of "where I'm coming from" in my encouraging Daniel to consider a vocation other than becoming a soldier has a lot to do with what this thread is about: Both the choice of ones vocation, and the choice of how we "love", have consequences.

 

Some people think we're living in our parents' or grandparents' young-adult world. They think we're still living in marriages and relationships -- and economic and geopolitical realities -- of the 1960s or 1950s or earlier. Of course we're not, but they don't know it, because they've been brought up and indoctrinated to believe otherwise, or for whatever reason they've never learned to think for themselves and see who are their real enemies and real allies.

 

So, instead of embracing real love or real peace, they long for things like sexy, feel-good attraction/lust and "peace with honor". The former lends itself better to packaging and comodification, and the latter allows the good ol' "military-industrial complex" to maximize profits until they shift their interests elsewhere, preferrably to another warzone.

 

I believe the reason modern relationships and marriages are so tenuous is because, as far as the titans of industry are concerned, "churn is good". Corporations make more profit when relationships, marriages and families fall apart and then struggle to rebuild over and over again, compared to the economics of stable relationships lasting for decades. Capitalism wants your money, and it doesn't care if your life, relationships, and long-term happiness suffer as a result. You may think "it just feels right" to maintain "time apart" and even separate households, but this wasn't your idea: The marketers and their bosses want it that way, because it's profitable.

 

Relatively speaking, I probably would have welcomed your friends' willingness to put themselves in harm's way AGAINST THE NAZIS DURING WORLDWAR II -- and I probably would have joined them in that cause if any of us had been around back then -- but we haven't faced any similar threat in many, many decades, and certainly aren't now.

 

Your friends have been duped into believing sacrificing themselves and their families is "an honorable service to their country". There was a time many decades ago when that may have been true, but it surely isn't today. Today they are only serving their corporate masters, which in and of itself isn't the worst thing in the world, EXCEPT FOR THE JOB THEY'RE TRAINED FOR AND ARE EXPECTED TO PERFORM.

 

So, no, they're not putting "their life on the line" for me or any other normal folks. Instead, they're doing it for the likes of Halliburton, Mobil Oil and their ilk.

 

This has nothing to do with politics and everything to do with opening ones heart and asking "Who really loves me? Who do I really love?" I guarantee you, the answer isn't George Bush or Tony Blair.

 

What we choose as a vocation, why we choose our mate, how we choose to live, what we choose to believe in, what we choose is worth dying for, and what we choose is worth living for ... they're all intertwined.

 

As the TV wiseman said, "Choose wisely, grasshopper."

[Tomas Koolhaas]

You might ask yourself why the government is willing (must) pay so much to get people to be soldiers. I'll give you a clue: It isn't primarily because they highly value soldiers' services delivering humanitarian aid and such. The government knows something you don't: Being a soldier is probably one of the riskiest, most-likely-to-cause-injury-or-death occupations. But that's not the worst part. The worst part is that you get to perform this life-threatening work for Fascists, you know, people like George Bush and his good pal Tony Blair, who by the way, really, really, don't care if you live or die.

 

Or, you could do something _more_ brave, challenging and potentially rewarding: Something which doesn't involve learning how to maim or kill people. I didn't say it'll be easy. That's where the bravery and challenge comes in. Think about it. Best of luck, whatever you decide.

 

Hi,

Peter, firstly watch what you say! "they" are listening, haven't you watched the news recently;) !!

Secondly, I dont agree with many modern wars, or their goals, but I have many friends in the army (UK, US and others) who really enjoy and believe in what they are doing! so please don't denigrate the entire profession as if they are just all mindless killing machines for the corporate machine (even if that is what you may think they are, yes I have read Noam Chomsky aswell and don't entirely disagree) and not people just like me and you. As I said I dont agree with any of the current wars in principle or practice but I myself was very close to joining the BRMs when I was around 17, I am glad as hell I didn't now, I would much rather shoot films than other human beings, but that doesn't mean that many sensitive, caring and intelligent people aren't currently serving in all armed services!!!

This is way off topic and not really appropriate anyway so that's the last I will say about it. I just wanted to get that off my chest.

Cheers.

Edited January 6, 2006 by Tomas Haas

[Chris Keth]

Your friends have been duped into believing sacrificing themselves and their families is "an honorable service to their country". There was a time many decades ago when that may have been true, but it surely isn't today. Today they are only serving their corporate masters, which in and of itself isn't the worst thing in the world, EXCEPT FOR THE JOB THEY'RE TRAINED FOR AND ARE EXPECTED TO PERFORM.

 

 

One of my friends is in the Air Force EOD, disarming landmines laid by the Iraqi army around towns. You don't think he's putting his life on the line for something good and honorable?

 

Another of them is a medical officer in Iraq, mostly patching up civilians who've been hit by insurgents who've hidden in their hometown. Isn't that a good reason to be in the military?

 

You really need to get off your high horse and accept that, while the military isn't always doing nice things, they are trying to do them in the service of the ultimate good. If you want to bitch about something, bitch about the reason they are where they are, not the people who are taking orders trying to do good things. I'm not going to talk any more about this, it's not the place and I've already said too much.

[Mike Lary]

To my mind, the spirit of "where I'm coming from" in my encouraging Daniel to consider a vocation other than becoming a soldier has a lot to do with what this thread is about: Both the choice of ones vocation, and the choice of how we "love", have consequences.

It seems like an exercise in futility to inject the thread with politics (or to ask someone not to and then follow it up with dogmatic rhetoric...) since those types of discussion don't change opinions; they just elevate the heart rate and wear out some keyboards a little faster. Someone could bring up their religion and say it's relevant to the subject as well because the teachings of their god(s) guide their decisions - and that would be equally inappropriate, intentions notwithstanding.

 

More importanlty, though, is the question of why on earth people waste time arguing with Daniel, let alone harrass him? He clearly doesn't know what he wants or what he has. He wants a pretty girlfriend, but he thinks he can hold on to her by distancing himself to avoid conflict. My experience has been that people (men or women) who deliberately distance themselves from their mate generally lose that mate to someone who thinks they're worth spending a LOT of time with. And as far as avoiding conflict goes, the military isn't really the best place for that, right? It doesn't sound like he's really committed to anything right now, not even an idea. Tommorrow he might decide to sell deep fried twinkies at the 4th of July parade, make a quick profit and start buying stock. (and that would probably be a much safer route than going into the film industry) Whatever he decides, it's his decision and technically, since he's not even sure he wants to work in film, this entire thread could very well be moot.

 

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to get back to reading a book on cinematography (cause that's where the love is).

[Peter J DeCrescenzo]

... please don't denigrate the entire profession as if they are just all mindless killing machines for the corporate machine ... and not people just like me and you. ... that doesn't mean that many sensitive, caring and intelligent people aren't currently serving in all armed services! ...

I said the soldiers chose unwisely. I didn't say they are mindless, insensitive, uncaring or unintelligent. In fact, I hope for all our sake they'll use their intelligence and sense of caring -- and their well-demonstrated courage -- to realize and admit their mistake in judgement and refuse to participate any further in Mr. Bush's criminal war against the people of Iraq.

 

There's no good they can do in Iraq, not in a larger sense. And there is much harm they have done and will do by remaining there. There is no "honor" to be found there -- the USA squandered any chance for that decades ago. If Iraq collapses into civil war tomorrow, or next week, or next year, or in five years, it'll be our fault. We set it in motion, it's our mistake, or rather: It's Mr. Bush and his supporters' mistake. Be courageous, do the right thing: Get out of Iraq now.

 

The only reason to stay is to make more money for Halliburton, Mobil, et al.

[Peter J DeCrescenzo]

One of my friends is in the Air Force EOD, disarming landmines laid by the Iraqi army around towns. You don't think he's putting his life on the line for something good and honorable?

 

No, I don't. In my opinion he made a mistake deciding to be there in the first place, and his staying primarily benefits Halliburton, Mobil, et al.

 

Another of them is a medical officer in Iraq, mostly patching up civilians who've been hit by insurgents who've hidden in their hometown. Isn't that a good reason to be in the military?

 

No, I don't think it is, especially since the so-called insurgents are blowing people/things up because "we" arrived.

 

You really need to get off your high horse and accept that, while the military isn't always doing nice things, they are trying to do them in the service of the ultimate good.

 

No, I have no reason to accept that contention. I'm now 51, and for as long as I can remember, the US military (under orders from our government) has only done the wrong things for the wrong reasons. This is something I figured out when I was a teenager, and I haven't seen or heard anything since then to convince me otherwise; quite the opposite.

 

If you want to bitch about something, bitch about the reason they are where they are, not the people who are taking orders trying to do good things.

 

Individually our soldiers may do good things, but collectively they are not, and have not, for decades. Not entirely their fault, but not entirely outside their control. Remember: They're not mindless automatons!

 

I'm not going to talk any more about this, it's not the place and I've already said too much.

 

It always surprises me how people who say they prize freedom so highly are often so willing to take it from others, deny it to themselves, and destroy it in its name.

[David Sweetman]

...to realize and admit their mistake in judgement and refuse to participate any further in Mr. Bush's criminal war against the people of Iraq.

 

You realize they could get the firing squad for that?

 

I agree this conversation shouldn't be here. But I cannot help responding to this point.

 

America looks out for its own interests. Iraq was a strategic attack in the name of peace and oil and now that it is in motion it cannot simply be stopped. To pull out now would be catastrophic.

 

Peter, it's like you're blind to the truth of the big picture. From reading your latest post, it's like you've been brainwashed by liberal nor-cal propoganda. I can't believe you think every soldier in Iraq is in the wrong. I can't imagine that you would think poorly of every person in uniform for the cause of freedom. Yes, freedom. You think the insurgents only surfaced when America showed up? My dad knows a refugee from Iraq. I've heard firsthand the horrors of the religious war. It's Jews vs. Muslims, if you don't know the context of the fighting. I've heard the horrors of Saddam Hussein. Iraq is a place torn apart by conflict, with bombings, killings, and insurgents regardless of American occupation. Rest assured America has done only good. Read about it sometime, and I mean from a reputable source, not from those black-and-white liberal photocopied magazines. Open your eyes.

 

It's the Vietnam era that's got you thinking like this. But wake up, Vietnam is over.

Edited January 6, 2006 by David Sweetman

[Chris Keth]

You really need to shed the hippy mentality you're still carrying and realize that everything can't always be happy and full of love for fellow man.

[Stephen Williams]

And plus it pays very well. As it is I could go in as an officer now and after 2 years be earning £25,000 per year. And if I did very well, by the time I'm 30/40 I could be a commander earning £50/60,000 per year. Retire at 40, live of a high rate pension, get another job which relates to the job I did in the Navy and get paid a bundle there aswell, added with the pension £70/80,000 per year.

 

Hi,

 

I don't want to disappoint you, but the pension you get will never be more than 2/3 of the salary you were earning. I am also under the impression that the minimum age to take your pension in the UK has been raised. It used to be 50.

 

Cheers

 

Stephen

[Tomas Koolhaas]

Hi,

This was the nicest topic on this forum until the politics got involved!!!

I dont think peter's extremely biased liberal views should be countered with equally black&white biased right-wing views either. Let's just put the polotics aside and remember this is about how different realionships help or hinder a career in cinematography!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ceasefire!

Cheers.

[David Sweetman]

Hi,

This was the nicest topic on this forum until the politics got involved!!!

I dont think peter's extremely biased liberal views should be countered with equally black&white biased right-wing views either. Let's just put the polotics aside and remember this is about how different realionships help or hinder a career in cinematography!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ceasefire!

Cheers.

 

Woah! didn't even realilze what topic this was in...how the freakin' heck did we get so far off track?

[Phil Rhodes]

Sorry, but the self-referential possibilities of this particularly unforgivable innuendo overcame me:

 

More Annie.

 

Less tool belt?

 

- Phil

[Dominik Muench]

Phil: not less...More :)

 

For the record, it is a black Lindcraft 2" belt which I have had to cut a considerable amount of excess off...with a grey and orange Cinebag pouch on the left, a black tape measure/Palm Pilot pouch on the right, a water bottle/canned air pouch on the back, a pair of gloves, and a flashlight holster. The rest goes in the cargo pants pockets. In fact I occasionally end up with a bruise on the outside of my left knee because of my measuring tape hitting my leg, but such is the nature of combat. :D

 

 

uhhh Yeahhh :)

 

thats like the erotic phone service for grips and gaffers :)

 

i wonder if that could be exploited...i see a high glossy magazine in front of me with glamour photos....."girls and their toolbelts" ,"CinebagLadies"....."Miss Canned Air" Competitions.....

Edited January 6, 2006 by Dmuench

[Phil Rhodes]

Well, they do shoots of women draped over £250,000 cars. Why not £250,000 cameras?

[Peter J DeCrescenzo]

You realize they could get the firing squad for that?

 

I'm fairly certain they couldn't and wouldn't. I believe soldiers are allowed to declare conscientious objector status.

 

I agree this conversation shouldn't be here.

 

I tried to explain above why I feel my point of view is relevent -- we're talking about life choices -- but if I have done so badly, my apologies.

 

But I cannot help responding to this point.

 

And it's a good thing, too. Thanks for sharing.

 

America looks out for its own interests. Iraq was a strategic attack in the name of peace ...

 

Let me work backwards: Iraq had nothing (or, at most, nothing significant) to do with 9/11. Relatively speaking, Iraq was not a haven for "out of state" terrorists before the US invaded. As most people in the world knew, Iraq did not have weapons of mass destruction immediately before we invaded. US policy towards Iraq caused untold misery for its people during our blockade/lockdown of the country. And, yes, Saddam is an evil, bad man -- and he's "our" guy, too! Years ago, when Iraq did posess and use weapons of mass destruction, the US did nothing meaningful to stop them. Years before that, Iraq (under Saddam) was a puppet state of the US, serving the US and corporate bidding. Extra bonus surprise: Many of the same bad actors (Rumsfeld, Wolf-what's-his-name, Cheney, and so forth) and their corporate allies have been involved all along. It's the same evil people making the same evil decisions decade after decade.

 

... and oil ...

 

Bingo!

 

... and now that it is in motion it cannot simply be stopped. To pull out now would be catastrophic.

 

Such "catastrophies" often follow US military interventions. It goes with the territory. It's what "we" humans often do, following in the heels of an unjust war. This time, it'll either be a quick, colvusive train wreck or a slow-motion train wreck, but I guarantee the train wreck will happen whether we leave Iraq tomorrow or in five years.

 

Peter, it's like you're blind to the truth of the big picture.

 

Which Rambo movie would that be?

 

From reading your latest post, it's like you've been brainwashed by liberal nor-cal propoganda.

 

No, as I said, I figured it out myself when I was a kid growing up in New Jersey. Not exactly a bastion of liberalism.

 

I can't believe you think every soldier in Iraq is in the wrong. I can't imagine that you would think poorly of every person in uniform for the cause of freedom. Yes, freedom. You think the insurgents only surfaced when America showed up? My dad knows a refugee from Iraq. I've heard firsthand the horrors of the religious war. It's Jews vs. Muslims, if you don't know the context of the fighting. I've heard the horrors of Saddam Hussein. Iraq is a place torn apart by conflict, with bombings, killings, and insurgents regardless of American occupation.

 

This is not the Age of the Crusades. The US has no business imposing its corporate-driven will on other countries, and the majority of the world's people agree, including and especially in the case of Iraq. (See above.)

 

Rest assured America has done only good.

 

Wait, I thought I was the one who was brainwashed?

 

Read about it sometime, and I mean from a reputable source, not from those black-and-white liberal photocopied magazines. Open your eyes.

 

Such as Fox-brought-to-you-by-Walmart-News? Or CBS-brought-to-you-by-Walmart-News? And so forth? All those "liberal", corporate news sources? Cracks me up, the myth of the "liberal" press! "Liberal" corporations! As if.

 

Among other things, if you haven't seen the documentary "The Corporation", please rent it as soon as possible. If you have seen it, watch it again, but this time with an open mind.

 

It's the Vietnam era that's got you thinking like this. But wake up, Vietnam is over.

 

No, it was probably the Korean War that first got me thinking like this, or rather my uncle telling me what he felt about being in it, and how he came to realize what a load of cr*p it was. Certainly the Vietnam War and Watergate and all the other little and big wars and political scandals (and yes, even Clinton's lying!) since then have done nothing but reinforce my beliefs. Heck, there were "corporate" wars in the past, too; watch the documentary "The Battle Over Citizen Kane", among other sources.

 

So, no, I don't believe the "Vietnam War" era is over. The US has been fighting as many unjust wars as it's been able to get away with for at least as long as I've been alive.

 

Rant over. Crowd cheers. Back to cinematography ... :)