best primes to use to get a nice spherical lense flare

[Tomas Koolhaas]

Hi,

I am ging t shoot a music video and intend to flare the lense quite a bit, I am not tryng to recreate anamorphic flares, I just want the nicest spherical flare patterns i can get, I know the angle and type of light hitting the lense mostly determines the type of flare, but I have noticed using Zeiss superspeeds that is is almost impossible to get the kind of flare I am after, and the director would like to use them.

I have got nice flares using S4's what does everyone reckomend???

Cheers.

[David Mullen ASC]

Older prime lenses with uncoated elements, or older zooms will flare more. The old Mk. II Ultra-Speeds at Panavision flare like crazy.

[Joe Taylor]

I've had problems with lens flare (good in your case) with my older Angenieux 24-250 zoom. This zoom is much older then your typical Ang. 24-250 HRs that are found in most rental houses, and can actually be bought for a song on ebay. (Might be hard to find one to rent). Overall quality is very nice, images actually intercut well with Zeiss standards, plus you get that great lens flare.

[Tony Brown]

I have got nice flares using S4's what does everyone reckomend???

 

Never managed that with S4's..... and I've tried and tried...... :blink:

[stephen defilippi]

Older prime lenses with uncoated elements, or older zooms will flare more. The old Mk. II Ultra-Speeds at Panavision flare like crazy.

 

 

David, im also planning to add some flare to an ending sequence in a large field, the subject is "walking into the sunset" with her dog, and im wondering, should I use filters or just take everything off? Does filtering, like ND & PL effect the flare?

 

thanks

stephen

[David Mullen ASC]

Does filtering, like ND & PL effect the flare?

 

Yes, but not in an interesting way, more just veiling problems and double-reflections, not rings and circles and whatnot.

 

I'd go for an old zoom, like an old 25-250mm. Lots of rings, especially as you zoom in or out of the sun.

[Guest Jake Braver]

I am trying to think of films that use flares as a style.The first thing that comes to mind is Die Hard. What else am I missing?

 

jake

[Max Jacoby]

Flares depend on what kind of lights that you use to achieve them. Most lenses flare very nicely when you have a strong light aimed straight at them (in shot), like headlights, etc... You get a pinkish-redish flare in most cases. I find Primos very nice in that aspect for instance.

 

Obviously the one lenses you shouldn't use are the Master Primes. You actually get free 235 from Arri if you manage to get a flare, not to mention that the whole Zeiss optics department will be phoning you up, aksing how you did it ;)

[Freya Black]

I am trying to think of films that use flares as a style.The first thing that comes to mind is Die Hard. What else am I missing?

 

jake

 

Blade runner seems like an obvious example tho I suspect there is a lot of cgi flaring! ;)

 

I actually shot something once in anamorphic dv and someone saw it and was going "Wow thats amazing, it reminds me of blade runner!" I was very shocked as I was mostly concerned with the awful looking video noise at the time! Really Riddley scott would have turned in his grave. Oh hang on he isn't dead is he??...

 

Anyway that was a really cheap anamorphic cine attachment. Flared like a crazy thing. It fact it made me decide that I must use a matte box next time! ;)

 

love

 

Freya

[Leo Anthony Vale]

Blade runner seems like an obvious example tho I suspect there is a lot of cgi flaring! ;)

 

I actually shot something once in anamorphic dv and someone saw it and was going "Wow thats amazing, it reminds me of blade runner!" I was very shocked as I was mostly concerned with the awful looking video noise at the time! Really Riddley scott would have turned in his grave. Oh hang on he isn't dead is he??...

 

Anyway that was a really cheap anamorphic cine attachment. Flared like a crazy thing. It fact it made me decide that I must use a matte box next time! ;)

 

'Blade Runner' was pre CGI. Most of it was shot 35mm anamorphic with the effects in 65mm sherical.

Most of the flares are from the anamorphics. The FX units probably bent over backwards to get flares.

[Brad Grimmett]

I just got home from a long day operating on a music video (yes, it's 6AM (my call was 12:30PM)) and we used a streak filter all day (and night) with Primo's. The streak filter was a first for me, but it seemed to work quite well. If you want horizontal flares you position the streaks vertically, and vice versa. On my monitor, and the directors monitor, the flares looked great. I'm interested to see how they really look on film. It appeared as if the DP had used that filter before and it had done it's job. So I guess there's a solution for creating flares now. I'm not sure how long that filter has been around, but it's a nice solution if that's what you're looking for. I'll try to remember to post a link to the video when it's finished. Hopefully I'll remember this thread.

[Tony Brown]

Streak filters have been around for while - originally as two point stars, but they do give an anamorphic type flare which the poster said he didn't want

[John Holland]

Connie Hall way back in 1965 with "Cool Hand Luke " anamorphic Panavision , wonderful , brave at that time , need more of that type of cinematography now instead of no grain ,no flare boring stuff we get all the time on big movies .

[Brad Grimmett]

Streak filters have been around for while - originally as two point stars, but they do give an anamorphic type flare which the poster said he didn't want

Oops. I guess my long day affected my ability to read properly.

What did the flare look like from the two point star filter? Was it also a horizontal flare?

[Chris Keth]

The Cooke series 2 primes (ca. 1964) I used to use in school flared beautifully.

[Tony Brown]

Oops. I guess my long day affected my ability to read properly.

What did the flare look like from the two point star filter? Was it also a horizontal flare?

 

If inserted vertically yes. Like the original panchro diffusers, I've been trying to find 2 point stars for several years......

[Stephen Williams]

The Cooke series 2 primes (ca. 1964) I used to use in school flared beautifully.

 

Hi Chris,

 

Possibly from the 1940's!

 

http://www.cookeoptics.com/cooke.nsf/history/1940

 

Stephen

[Leo Anthony Vale]

Possibly from the 1940's!

 

http://www.cookeoptics.com/cooke.nsf/history/1940

 

Sounds arrogant to contradict the Cooke site, but if one actually goes through old literature like bound volumes of the SMPTE journal and ASC handbooks, the Series II Speed Panchros came out in the 50s at the same time the Kinetals were intrduced.

In the 40s the "series one" speed panchros became availiable with Filmo-Coating. Bell&Howell was the US distributer during the 30s, 40s & early 50s.

[Chris Keth]

Hi Chris,

 

Possibly from the 1940's!

 

http://www.cookeoptics.com/cooke.nsf/history/1940

 

Stephen

 

That's older than I thought. The set I used had been rehoused at least once and was pretty tricky to even find out that it was a series 2. They all hovered around T2.2 or 2.3. I took the equipment manager's word for a manufacture date in 1964; as far as I could tell, they lost their serial numbers long ago.

Edited June 20, 2007 by Chris Keth

[Leo Anthony Vale]

Possibly from the 1940's!

 

http://www.cookeoptics.com/cooke.nsf/history/1940

 

Lets examine the text in this link:

 

The Series II Cooke Speed Panchros for cinematography were distributed exclusively through Bell & Howell in London and Chicago. The Series II lenses were developed for higher definition in wide screen presentations and to cover standard format 0.723 x 0.980 inches. By 1945 they came in focal lengths: 18, 25, 32, 40, 50 and 75mm. The 100mm, f/2.5 Deep Field Panchro was released in 1946.

 

"higher definition in wide screen presentations" CinemaScope came out in 1953, not 1943. 1.85/1, 1.75/1 & 1.66/1 came out at the same time to compete with it. & the original anamorphics were attachments.

 

An an 18mm inverse telephoto lens in the early 40s?

Why wasn't it used on 'Citizen Kane'? Maybe it was shot 10 years too soon.

[Leo Anthony Vale]

That's older than I thought. The set I used had been rehoused at least once and was pretty tricky to even find out that it was a series 2. They all hovered around T2.2 or 2.3. I took the equipment manager's word for a manufacture date in 1964; as far as I could tell, they lost their serial numbers long ago.

 

Tim Carroll posted this PDF in the Arri 120 blimp thread in 35mm yesterday:

 

http://www.arri16s.netfirms.com/Blimp120S.pdf

 

The last page is dated April 1967 & page 18 lists filter holders for Cooke Speed Panchro Series II & III lenses.

 

Inthe late 60s American Cinematographer ran ads from Rank Precision Industries for Speed Panchros, Kinetals and Monitals (Pan Cinors renamed after SOM Berthiot was sold a couple of times).

 

Cooke Series II Speed Panchros were being manufactured and sold in the 60s. Series III consists of only an 18mm and a 25mm.

 

The 20-100mm Variotal came out in 1970, at that point Cooke switched the manufacturing line over to exclusively zooms.

 

 

In the 1953 ASC Handbook the Lens section lists Cooke Speed Panchros under Bell& howell with focal lengths going from 25-100mm with a 28mm and a 35mm. No series number & there are no series II 28 and 35.

 

The 1956 Handbook lists the same batch plus TTH Special Wide Angle 18mm F. 1.7 & Bell & Howell Angenieaux 18,5 mm F. 2.2.

 

 

An old notebook of mine has 1958 as the year Series II Speed Panchros and Kinetals came out.

 

So most of the Series II Speed Panchros wer indeed manufactured in the 60s.

 

---El Pedante

[Chris Keth]

Very cool. Thanks, Leo!

[Stuart Brereton]

If you can't get what you want optically, then the Knoll Light Factory software package can do some very convincing flares.