Local 600 membership

[David Mullen ASC]

Maybe it's an East Coast thing, but I have no memory of ever dealing with a "roster". I applied to the union, submitted the paperwork, paid the fees and dues, then started working on the union shows that were offered me. That was about four or five years ago. The notion of a roster has never come up, so maybe someone can explain to me what it is exactly.

[Michael Most]

Maybe it's an East Coast thing, but I have no memory of ever dealing with a "roster". I applied to the union, submitted the paperwork, paid the fees and dues, then started working on the union shows that were offered me. That was about four or five years ago. The notion of a roster has never come up, so maybe someone can explain to me what it is exactly.

 

The Industry Experience Roster is administered not by the union, but by Contract Services, an organization run by the employers. You must submit proof of at least 100 days of work in the category in which you are seeking placement within the last, I believe, 3 years. The work can be union or non-union, the proof is usually in the form of either time cards or pay records. Since you are working, you are almost certainly on the roster, which is surprising if you don't remember submitting the specific paperwork to Contract Services (they're in Studio City, you normally have to go there in person) to enable roster placement.

[David Mullen ASC]

The Industry Experience Roster is administered not by the union, but by Contract Services, an organization run by the employers. You must submit proof of at least 100 days of work in the category in which you are seeking placement within the last, I believe, 3 years. The work can be union or non-union, the proof is usually in the form of either time cards or pay records. Since you are working, you are almost certainly on the roster, which is surprising if you don't remember submitting the specific paperwork to Contract Services (they're in Studio City, you normally have to go there in person) to enable roster placement.

 

I submitted all the paperwork to Contract Services and qualified, paid the fees and dues to IATSE. I guess that placed me on the roster technically but it's sort of been a non-issue; it's never come up one way or the other. I suppose I could do something to fall off the roster, like not pay my dues or something....

[Mark Henderson]

I submitted all the paperwork to Contract Services and qualified, paid the fees and dues to IATSE. I guess that placed me on the roster technically but it's sort of been a non-issue; it's never come up one way or the other. I suppose I could do something to fall off the roster, like not pay my dues or something....

 

Is it possible to join Local 600 by paying your initiation fees and paying the dues, but then never getting on the roster (thus never getting union work). I have plenty of work as a DP but I don't know the requirements for contract services?

 

Thanks, Mark

[David Mullen ASC]

You have to go through Contact Services to apply to the union. The Local 600 requirements are proving 100 days of PAID work in your category (as a DP in your case if that's what category you want to be in), work completed within 3 years of the date of application, and done in the U.S. or its territories. Paid prep work as a DP counts.

 

The easiest thing is to get a letter from the payroll company that handled your paychecks over the past three years stating the days worked and under what job title, because their word has a lot more weight than letters from producers, etc. some of which might not get counted.

 

Keep copies and/or the originals because Contract Services often loses things. I had to send them a copy of the letter from the payroll company because they lost it.

 

After Contract Services tells you that you are qualified and puts you on the roster, and you watch a safety training video, you get a notice from Local 600 to come in for an orientation, plus you get the bill for joining (nearly $10,000, which can be paid off over a certain time) and the quarterly dues.

 

Honestly, there is no reason to join the union if you're not at a stage where you are being offered union jobs and worried about having to pass them up. I didn't join until I had worked for ten years and shot a lot of features. But if you are about to be at that stage and have the days, it's nice to apply when you're not rushed, because it can take a couple of months.

[Michael Most]

I submitted all the paperwork to Contract Services and qualified, paid the fees and dues to IATSE. I guess that placed me on the roster technically but it's sort of been a non-issue; it's never come up one way or the other. I suppose I could do something to fall off the roster, like not pay my dues or something....

 

Employers who are union signatories must check the roster status of any prospective crew member, unless they are in a specific, non-roster position. It all kind of happens behind the scenes, but believe me, it is always checked by either accounting or the legal department.

[Matthew Buick]

In the UK, BECTU is a paper tiger, but our hours are fairly reasonable.

 

So BECTU is the UK union? If so, could a puny ''n00b cinematographer'', who isn't all that bad I'll add, join this union?

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

Practically anyone can join BECTU - independent filmmakers in LA always seem incredibly impressed by my union card, but they do not appreciate this simple fact.

 

Whether it's worth it or not is another issue. BECTU really only seem to care about people who work for one of the big broadcasters with whom they have collective bargaining agreements of long standing. When I was fired from a production earlier this year, all the union did was say "Yeah, you're totally in the right and you should get a pot of money, but we can't afford to fight these guys." Useless.

 

Phil

[Stuart Brereton]

So BECTU is the UK union? If so, could a puny ''n00b cinematographer'', who isn't all that bad I'll add, join this union?

 

Yep. £120 per year is all you need to join our illustrious trade union. Doesn't get you much, except a nice membership card, cheap liability insurance, and the opportunity to go 'on strike' in support of BBC staff every time their contract negotiations go badly.

[timHealy]

I remember visiting a friend on a set where they were shooting on a soundstage where daylight didn't matter, but because of long hours, their call times were around midnight towards the end of the week. And I can tell you that you can see it on an actress' face when you their close-ups at 4AM...

 

Not only are long hours to the crew disrespectful, and I know they don't care, but when one does closeups of lead actresses at 4 am, the producers are really doing the crew, talent, and the final film, a great diservice.

 

I worked on a job once where the producers took care of Goldie Hawn. When she became tired during night shoots we wrapped and went home.

 

Best

 

Tim

 

Maybe it's an East Coast thing, but I have no memory of ever dealing with a "roster". I applied to the union, submitted the paperwork, paid the fees and dues, then started working on the union shows that were offered me. That was about four or five years ago. The notion of a roster has never come up, so maybe someone can explain to me what it is exactly.

 

Hey David,

 

Actually the a West coast thing. Nothing of the sort applies in the East.

 

Having said that, I wonder how it affects people getting into 600 since it is a national "local". (sounds like an oxymoron to me) If you live in LA and your home base is in LA, I would imagine you have to go through the Contract Service hoops and doggy show. But if you live in NY, I imagine one does not have to go through Contract Service at all.

 

Perhaps you work so much that you never have to worry about being off the roster, or does it apply to DP's at all?

 

Best

 

Tim

[Matthew Buick]

Yep. £120 per year is all you need to join our illustrious trade union. Doesn't get you much, except a nice membership card, cheap liability insurance, and the opportunity to go 'on strike' in support of BBC staff every time their contract negotiations go badly.

 

I'll have to think about it, being in a union could be really good for my career.

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

> being in a union could be really good for my career

 

No, Matthew, really, it couldn't.

 

Phil

[Mark Henderson]

You have to go through Contact Services to apply to the union. The Local 600 requirements are proving 100 days of PAID work in your category (as a DP in your case if that's what category you want to be in), work completed within 3 years of the date of application, and done in the U.S. or its territories. Paid prep work as a DP counts.

 

The easiest thing is to get a letter from the payroll company that handled your paychecks over the past three years stating the days worked and under what job title, because their word has a lot more weight than letters from producers, etc. some of which might not get counted.

 

Keep copies and/or the originals because Contract Services often loses things. I had to send them a copy of the letter from the payroll company because they lost it.

 

After Contract Services tells you that you are qualified and puts you on the roster, and you watch a safety training video, you get a notice from Local 600 to come in for an orientation, plus you get the bill for joining (nearly $10,000, which can be paid off over a certain time) and the quarterly dues.

 

Honestly, there is no reason to join the union if you're not at a stage where you are being offered union jobs and worried about having to pass them up. I didn't join until I had worked for ten years and shot a lot of features. But if you are about to be at that stage and have the days, it's nice to apply when you're not rushed, because it can take a couple of months.

 

When the Hollywood productions come to the southeast and shoot, they usually bring their own DPs. I'm more interested at this stage in getting on as a second or third unit DP. I can land the local features without the union status. I think it's impossible to get on the Hollywood productions' however, without being in the union in some status. Am I wrong in this thinking?

[David Mullen ASC]

If it looks like you'll be offered 2nd Unit DP jobs on union shoots coming to your location, then you should join the union. But joining the union by itself won't mean that you'll be offered jobs.

 

You may want to join as an operator (might be cheaper) because more than likely, you'd be hired as a B-camera operator who may occasionally be asked to shoot some "splinter unit" material. But then, if you joined as a DP, you could still be hired to do B-camera operating.

[Mark Henderson]

Is there any major drawback trying to be hired for second unit as a DP vs. a camera operator? Would it really come down to more of what is on your resume and your abilities? Thanks, Mark

[David Mullen ASC]

Obviously you'd apply for whatever you felt you were qualified for. What location are you in? Have you talked to other people doing the same thing in your area, other local DP's & operators or camera crewpeople in general who are in the union? They would paint a more accurate picture of the situation in your location that I could.

[Matthew Buick]

Hi,

 

> being in a union could be really good for my career

 

No, Matthew, really, it couldn't.

 

Phil

 

Wow! How not? :huh:

[Stephen Williams]

Yep. £120 per year is all you need to join our illustrious trade union.

 

Hi,

 

Give them a foreign address and its £30!

 

Stephen

[Jon Kukla]

Okay, here's a question:

 

I'm an American who's been working as an AC in the UK for almost two years now. As we don't have a real union, I've had little problem working on any productions - I've done everything from student shoots to things at Pinewood, and at least a bit of all the things in between.

 

However, unfortunately due to new visa regs, I may have to return to the US. I'm looking at both NYC and LA these next two weeks, but I don't know whether or not I should be seriously eyeing up the union (as a loader, I guess). I have a lot of prior experience; I just need to quickly cultivate my network and learn the diffs between the UK and US systems. I figure maybe just working as a camera trainee/intern/PA on a sizeable job or two should sort that out.

 

Anyway, I know that if I go to NYC I can take the test in October. What I'm wondering is if I should join the union relatively quickly as an assistant. In my experience over here, AC'ing is not like DP'ing generally is - you can go from small potatoes to big studio jobs in very very little time. (If I'm over-generalizing, my apologies and let me know.)

 

So...yeah, what do you all think?

[Mark Henderson]

If I understand it correctly now, If you join Local 600 AND you choose LOS ANGELES (Not NY, IL or FL) as your production city you are not allowed to work (At least for productions that fall under the Hollywood Basic Agreement) in the 13 western region states: Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Hawaii, Idaho, Montana, Nebraska, New Mexico, Oregon, Utah, Washington and Wyoming unless you are ALSO on either the TELEVISION COMMERCIAL ROSTER or the INDUSTRY EXPERIENCE ROSTER.

 

Once you join Local 600, it is ANOTHER PROCESS to apply to the Contract Services Administration Trust Fund (CSATF) (aka Contract Services) to become listed on the ROSTER. To be eligible to be on the roster you have to prove through payment stubs or such that you had at least 100 PAID DAYS of non-union work (within a 3-year period that immediately ends prior to applying to the roster) in the same job classification that you seek to be listed on the roster as, such as a Director of Photography. OR show you have a total of 30 DAYS within a year of application within the 37 Central and/or Eastern states.

 

NOTE:

-- You can be in Local 600 without being on the roster

-- You can be on the roster without being in Local 600

-- Being TRANSPORTED out of/from LA may also make you fall under the guidelines of being on the roster

-- There are still a few odds and ends that must apply, which would take a few more paragraphs of buts and ifs to explain. The above covers the gist of it.

 

This is just my understanding from reading info, I'm asking more than telling, anyone see where I'm wrong or miss informed please point it out to me and others.

 

Thanks, Mark

[David Mullen ASC]

No, you're confused. You can't join the IA Local 600 first without going through Contract Services. Contract Services are the ones to check that you are qualified to join the union. When they say you are qualified, they pass the info onto the IA Local 600, who then contacts you.

 

As far as listing LA as your home production city, that doesn't mean you can't work elsewhere, just that you won't be considered a local anywhere else and the production has to provide housing and per diem when working outside of your production home city. This is a financial burden on the production meant to encourage them to hire local union members first.

 

Don't fixate on the whole roster thing.

[Mark Henderson]

No, you're confused. You can't join the IA Local 600 first without going through Contract Services. Contract Services are the ones to check that you are qualified to join the union. When they say you are qualified, they pass the info onto the IA Local 600, who then contacts you.

 

As far as listing LA as your home production city, that doesn't mean you can't work elsewhere, just that you won't be considered a local anywhere else and the production has to provide housing and per diem when working outside of your production home city. This is a financial burden on the production meant to encourage them to hire local union members first.

 

Don't fixate on the whole roster thing.

 

 

David: But isn't there only two production cities, NY and LA? What determines you as a local hire? On the production city form it only allows you to choose NY or LA, no other city.

 

A direct quote from a form says, "You may be a member of Local 600 without being placed on the roster".

 

David:

 

When I work on movies I get a paycheck and call sheets, but 90% of the time that stuff doesn't apply to me. I get a call to shoot a job and I take out my grip truck, lights and shoot the job. I'm just not sure how much of my paperwork relates to what Contract Services wants.

 

Thanks, Mark

[David Mullen ASC]

I don't know how it works state by state, but when I was in New Mexico shooting "The Astronaut Farmer", the local IA crew people (camera, grip, electric, etc.) were considered "local" no matter where in the state they lived -- in other words, if they lived in Taos or Albuquerque but we were shooting in Santa Fe, the production didn't necessarily have to provide them with housing if the production was based in Santa Fe.

 

However, for all the out-of-state people like me, my camera operator and 1st AC, the Key Grip, the production considered us to be "not local" and had to put us up and give us per diem & travel.

 

In the case of a DP I know, he lives in Atlanta, GA but decided to list Los Angeles as his production city, so he has to pay for his expenses when shooting in Los Angeles -- but if he worked in Atlanta, technically that production would have to pay to house him and give him per diem. He did that because he didn't want an LA production to hesitate to hire him because he wasn't local.

 

I think the issue of not being placed on the roster must be due to something like not meeting requirements like passing safety training courses -- it's unique to each job classification.

 

Like I said, in the five years since joining I've never not been on the roster but that's probably because I don't miss the safety training requirement courses, etc.

 

Read this:

http://www.csatf.org/ier.shtml

 

Like I said, I joined IA Local 600 like this:

1. I went to Contract Services and applied. I had the payroll company send a letter stating my work days under the DP category. Two months went by.

2. I met the requirements, watched a safety training video, paid the fees and dues, was placed on the roster.

3. I went to an orientation meeting at the IA Local 600 building.

 

That's about it, other than regularly paying my dues.

 

As far as what Contract Services accepts as evidence, that's up to them. My payroll record was thankfully unambiguous. I was listed as Director of Photography on my paychecks. Anything else and I'm sure you'll be arguing with them because they are very picky. It's important when you sign your deal memos and then time sheets, it's clear that you are listed as a Director of Photography.

[Mark Henderson]

"In the case of a DP I know, he lives in Atlanta, GA but decided to list Los Angeles as his production city, so he has to pay for his expenses when shooting in Los Angeles -- but if he worked in Atlanta, technically that production would have to pay to house him and give him per diem. He did that because he didn't want an LA production to hesitate to hire him because he wasn't local."

 

 

David:

 

You make a lot of sense. The only issue is that on my form there is only a choice of two production cities, New York or Los Angeles (The title of the form is: PRODUCTION CITY FORM). That's it. They are written in with lines beside them. You mark one or the other. I see no place to even write in another city. It's like choose LA or NY, doesn't even ask for a local hire city like Atlanta. It appears to indicate that you can work in your state as a local hire and then either LA or NY also as a local hire (but not both LA and NY).

 

Mark

[David Mullen ASC]

It appears to indicate that you can work in your state as a local hire and then either LA or NY also as a local hire (but not both LA and NY).

 

That is possibly correct -- maybe it was some sort of compromise when the three separate Locals for the West Coast, Midwest, and East Coast merged several years ago into a single national local. I'm not sure it's a big deal -- if people want to hire you, they'll put you up in a hotel if necessary. I did one union feature on the East Coast already, in Philadelphia. They paid travel, housing (a nice apartment!) and per diem for almost five months.

 

I have been up for union features in NYC where they were only budgeted for local DP's, so I'm not sure how I would have gotten around that if hired, because even if I were willing to pay for my own lodging just to get the job, I would think the union would object because it violates the intent of the "local hire" concept, i.e. to encourage productions to hire locally. But it never came up because for whatever reason, I didn't end up taking the job. Besides, I wouldn't take the job if I had to pay my own living expenses in NYC -- it's too expensive to live there! Half my salary would be eaten up by my expenses... or I'd be commuting to work from way outside the city.