Wanted: Super 8 with Max8 mod.

[Vincent Sweeney]

Any used Max8 cameras out there? Or a good candidate for conversion?

 

Email: socket46880 (at) mypacks.net

[Matthew W. Phillips]

I would say Max8 is a ridiculous idea...for the money spent to convert everything (remember the lens must be recentered too, not just a widened gate) you might as well upgrade to 16mm.

[Stephen Smith]

I would say Max8 is a ridiculous idea...for the money spent to convert everything (remember the lens must be recentered too, not just a widened gate) you might as well upgrade to 16mm.

 

there was a modified 4008 on ebay a few weeks ago priced at £2500, which does seem ridiculous to me (it didn't sell), could easily go 16mm for that like matthew says.

[kevin jackman]

you dont need to reset the lens if you use an beaulieu and use 16mm lenses which is smarter because you know it will cover and primes are best anyway

[Matthew W. Phillips]

you dont need to reset the lens if you use an beaulieu and use 16mm lenses which is smarter because you know it will cover and primes are best anyway

 

Primes on Super 8? Sounds like Santo...

[kevin jackman]

Primes on Super 8? Sounds like Santo...

 

i'm all for making the format as good as it can be. primes make the the world of super8 much much better

[Matthew W. Phillips]

i'm all for making the format as good as it can be. primes make the the world of super8 much much better

 

I disagree, i think part of what makes super 8 great is it's roughness. Otherwise, I'd just shoot 16 or larger.

[kevin jackman]

I disagree, i think part of what makes super 8 great is it's roughness. Otherwise, I'd just shoot 16 or larger.

 

not everybody wants roughness or all the time. its also good to have options. some do it for the cost savings as well. i think its great to at least give the format a shot at being as good as it can be so you can see what the max potential is. its amazing. otherwise who cares just get a dimestore 5 dollar camera and accept what it puts out.

[Yoji San]

Let's no forget how easy it is to load super8 cameras ;)

Edited September 20, 2009 by Yoji San

[Matthew W. Phillips]

not everybody wants roughness or all the time. its also good to have options. some do it for the cost savings as well. i think its great to at least give the format a shot at being as good as it can be so you can see what the max potential is. its amazing. otherwise who cares just get a dimestore 5 dollar camera and accept what it puts out.

 

Kevin, I don't think you understand...this dude Santo said you should put $10k Zeiss primes on a Leicina Special. That is absurd, I don't care how you justify it. For $10k, you'd be much better off getting a CP-16 with some decent glass and a sh*tload of stock. I guarantee it will look better than S8 at it's best potential.

[Matthew W. Phillips]

Let's no forget how easy it is to load super8 cameras ;)

 

Yeah, it's easy to load but you must be careful of film jutter. It seems everytime I do a shoot, I always have at least one cartridge that comes back from the lab and has unbearably shaky footage. Cruel irony makes it to where it's usually your best stuff on that bad cartridge. I would prefer if S8 had a 400' magazine and a manual load. Then you could also shoot longer than 2.5 minutes @24fps.

[Yoji San]

Cruel irony makes it to where it's usually your best stuff on that bad cartridge

I know what you mean....

 

I would prefer if S8 had a 400' magazine and a manual load. Then you could also shoot longer than 2.5 minutes @24fps.

You are maybe on to something here :rolleyes:

 

 

By the way I don't know if anybody is interested in making a Max8 mod I have an extra Beaulieu 4008 ZMII Body in pretty decent shape, if interested let me know I can send pictures and open for offer

[kevin jackman]

i dont htink i ever told anybody to put a 10,000 lens on a super8 camera. but hey if you can borrow one for free dont turn it down.

[Matthew W. Phillips]

Hey, why not put a Cooke S4 on a Super 8 camera? (hopes people know I'm kidding)

[Yoji San]

Hey, why not put a Cooke S4 on a Super 8 camera? (hopes people know I'm kidding)

 

 

That's for sure :blink:

 

 

 

[Matthew W. Phillips]

That is hilarious...I wonder how that one turned out?

[Chris Burke]

is this thing for real or a photoshop hack? Please say for reel.

 

 

 

my comments about the misgivings flying around; why not.

 

people reacted the same way when the ps technik 35mm adapter came out. why bother with a a 10k pieces of equipment and put a 20k lens on it all for a little old xl1? because it looks better and we caN. i am testing out different formats for a feature I'm writing and max 8 with zeiss super speeds is on the list of cameras. this is for a modestly funded feature with name talent. Easy of use, look, portability all enter into the reasons why. Again why not if you can. we are looking at ulta 16s and sk4. Sure the rough nature of super 8 is it's main selling point. but with all the great negative and new reversal stocks out there and the vastly improved scanning techniques, you can't help but see how far yoiu can go with the format. local rental house near me that rents max 8 cameras told me that they are always out, especially on weekends. At my suggestion, they are getting a C mount to PL adapter for their super speeds to be rented along with the cameras. Super 8 as format has much more room to grow, why not let it.

[Yoji San]

Guys, I did a quick photoshop trick, I wanted to make Matthew's day :lol:

[Matthew W. Phillips]

my comments about the misgivings flying around; why not.

 

people reacted the same way when the ps technik 35mm adapter came out. why bother with a a 10k pieces of equipment and put a 20k lens on it all for a little old xl1? because it looks better and we caN. i am testing out different formats for a feature I'm writing and max 8 with zeiss super speeds is on the list of cameras. this is for a modestly funded feature with name talent. Easy of use, look, portability all enter into the reasons why. Again why not if you can. we are looking at ulta 16s and sk4. Sure the rough nature of super 8 is it's main selling point. but with all the great negative and new reversal stocks out there and the vastly improved scanning techniques, you can't help but see how far yoiu can go with the format. local rental house near me that rents max 8 cameras told me that they are always out, especially on weekends. At my suggestion, they are getting a C mount to PL adapter for their super speeds to be rented along with the cameras. Super 8 as format has much more room to grow, why not let it.

 

Chris, there is nothing wrong with putting expensive glass on your S8 camera if it's available.I'm just saying that if you're making a film with S8, there are much better places to spend your money than to actually go out and buy or rent Zeiss primes for your S8. If you have the glass on hand from your 16/35 gear or you have a buddy who will let you use it for free than great. But there is only so far you're going to carry the quality of S8, at least until scan technology can try to squeeze more detail out of it.

 

My reason for not using nice glass on S8 is because I consider the total camera with S8. The only S8 cameras that take interchangable lenses (without modification) are cameras that are louder than I want to use. I keep to either the Elmo 612/1012s-xl or the low sound Nizo's. Everyone digs the Beaulieu 4008 and some people spend a lot to max these cameras out but they are still loud for indoor dialog work. I've heard that you can blimp them down but I've never heard someone do it to the level of the low sound Nizos or the Elmo. Basically, it seems to me like putting a Zeiss prime on a Krasnogorsk 3.

[Matthew W. Phillips]

Guys, I did a quick photoshop trick, I wanted to make Matthew's day :lol:

 

That did make my day...funny enough is that camera doesn't even take interchangable lenses LOL

 

Reminds me of a fellow I saw on DVXUser a few years ago who said he wanted to put his own lenses on his DVX100 so he was going to take a hacksaw to the body to remove the stock lense...absolutely hilarious.

[Yoji San]

That did make my day...funny enough is that camera doesn't even take interchangable lenses LOL

 

Reminds me of a fellow I saw on DVXUser a few years ago who said he wanted to put his own lenses on his DVX100 so he was going to take a hacksaw to the body to remove the stock lense...absolutely hilarious.

 

 

:lol: That made mine!

I'm still laughing :lol:

[kevin jackman]

great so we agree, for those that want things better, get better glass for your super8. those that want it the old way, stick to the old way.

[Matthew W. Phillips]

great so we agree, for those that want things better, get better glass for your super8. those that want it the old way, stick to the old way.

 

It's not a question of the old way Kevin, it's a question of the fact that there is more to consider in a camera but just the optics of the lens. I would love it if the Elmo had an interchangable lens mount but it doesn't. I'm not willing to compromise the noisiness of the Beaulieu or Leicina Special to get a lens mount. It would be getting a boost in one department to take a ding in another. I suppose if one wanted to shoot B cam like that, it would work.

[Vincent Sweeney]

I would say Max8 is a ridiculous idea...for the money spent to convert everything (remember the lens must be recentered too, not just a widened gate) you might as well upgrade to 16mm.

 

Hey Matthew I appreciate your passion on the subject but in this case the "advice" is way out of line. A "ridiculous idea" might be one that suggests that someone should just "upgrade to 16mm", based off that post of mine and without any investigation on your part. (Do you not realize that S8 and 16 are radically different?) I have a good reason for the post and that is: I specifically need a S8 system that tells me where the 16:9 frame lay. The Max8 mod. brings with it not only the markings we need, but a high quality camera that has recently been overhauled and tested, provides a better use of the film's surface and offers possible lens options. All this is easily worth the effort and savings in time, errors, endless frustrations, etc..

 

Also, S8 is going to look "rough" no matter what. A good prime, however, may help it blend in better for certain projects that will finish in HD. My application would be for something professional, where someone is spending money (often their own life savings) and expects results. We have no time to play around with issues like you may be used to doing on student films, home movies, etc. and if using a modern version of Super8 will help me deliver what's needed, then the small cash difference is not a problem.

 

Ask questions and consider a poster's possible knowledge-base before you start typing next time; our communications will only improve because of it.

 

If you want some deeper education on the subjects touched on above feel free to email me off-forum as I think threads like this one seem to only progress to serve as a soap-box to shout from, based on emotion of course, especially after a blunt response like this one although it's well deserved I think. Also I'll probably not check it again for a very long time, if ever.

[Matthew W. Phillips]

Hey Matthew I appreciate your passion on the subject but in this case the "advice" is way out of line. A "ridiculous idea" might be one that suggests that someone should just "upgrade to 16mm", based off that post of mine and without any investigation on your part. (Do you not realize that S8 and 16 are radically different?) I have a good reason for the post and that is: I specifically need a S8 system that tells me where the 16:9 frame lay. The Max8 mod. brings with it not only the markings we need, but a high quality camera that has recently been overhauled and tested, provides a better use of the film's surface and offers possible lens options. All this is easily worth the effort and savings in time, errors, endless frustrations, etc..

 

Also, S8 is going to look "rough" no matter what. A good prime, however, may help it blend in better for certain projects that will finish in HD. My application would be for something professional, where someone is spending money (often their own life savings) and expects results. We have no time to play around with issues like you may be used to doing on student films, home movies, etc. and if using a modern version of Super8 will help me deliver what's needed, then the small cash difference is not a problem.

 

Ask questions and consider a poster's possible knowledge-base before you start typing next time; our communications will only improve because of it.

 

If you want some deeper education on the subjects touched on above feel free to email me off-forum as I think threads like this one seem to only progress to serve as a soap-box to shout from, based on emotion of course, especially after a blunt response like this one although it's well deserved I think. Also I'll probably not check it again for a very long time, if ever.

 

Okay, you can think what you want and spend what you want. But realistically, there are very few reasons one could think to go to great trouble and expense maxing out 8mm instead of going to 16mm, and none of them are about the money (except maybe one).

 

1) You just like the look of 8mm- This is cool but then why muck with it at all? Just use stock lens, gate, and settings. Trying to add primes and all that may defeat the point of using S8 at all.

 

2) Stock cost- This is the only valid reason I can see for converting to max 8. Going up to 16mm effectively doubles the stock cost. Keeping the film shot on S8 stock keeps the cost down. Of course, you sacrafice in other areas but oh well. However, if you shoot short end 16mm, you can probably get it cheaper than S8 and possibly get ends longer than 2.5 minutes worth.

 

3) Film loading- You don't want to load standard film. You'd rather just pop in a catridge. This is easy, no doubt, but it's hardly worth giving up all that image quality. Bit the bullet and load a 16mm already. You'll be glad you did.

 

Maybe there are other reasons not here, but overall you are arguing a silly point if you think it is better to spend money maxing out S8 rather than going 16mm. I will always argue the S8 is capable of doing feature films but I will never argue that it's worth spending as much on. That's what I love about S8 is the fact that it's affordable. If it ceases to be affordable, it ceases to be worth it.

 

I find it highly offensive that you assume I must only work on "student films, home movies, etc." I have made films that have went to festivals, etc. You don't need Max 8 to create such work. Just a good story and good acting will often be enough for most people to appreciate. And I don't need your "film education." I would question the opinion of anyone who is too afraid to move to a higher gauge just because. I love S8 as much as the next person but there is no way in hell it's ever going to compete with 16mm man...use your head. The lens options, crystal sync, accessories, and everything that can be had for 16/S16 are unreal. Even the ability to get 400' mags is enough to make 16 very attractive.