Jeremy Parsons Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 I'm putting together a class session on Film Aesthetics and Style. I don't want to just cite GOOD examples. We're so used to seeing it done right, its hard to explain WHY it works. In contrast to all the invisibly good work, I would like to cite examples of movies with BAD Cinematography, Set design, etc. Where students can actually see where things don't work and discuss why. I don't want cite cult films because the earnest attempts that fail become an endearing aesthetic of itself. I also don't want to use student films (I may have to). My instinct is to go to successful filmmakers' early works that aren't quite up to their current standard. Most of what I know of are pretty good (Reservoir Dogs, Croupier, The Duel, El Mariachi) Can anyone suggest examples that just don't quite work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Brereton Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 There are many movies which are lit in dull, unimaginative, or generic ways, but the only movie I can think of that I've 'hated' the photography was American Psycho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Bill DiPietra Posted March 13, 2016 Premium Member Share Posted March 13, 2016 My instinct is to go to successful filmmakers' early works that aren't quite up to their current standard. That may not be the best approach. I personally felt the photography in Reservoir Dogs was very subtle & effective compare to many of Tarantino's more recent collaborations with Robert Richardson. And this is coming from someone who does not care for Tarantino's work in the first place. Furthermore, aren't many filmmakers' earlier works very often not his or her bests? You're talking about an aesthetic & technical journey that can take decades to reach. It's an evolution - sometimes the artist is light-years ahead of the technology, sometime the other way around, sometime everything lines up just right. Also, the first thing you need to do is define what you mean by "bad cinematography." I can understand a student saying that, but that is far too broad a term for a teacher to be using. There are many movies which are lit in dull, unimaginative, or generic ways, but the only movie I can think of that I've 'hated' the photography was American Psycho. There are plenty of films which have that kind of 2:1 lighting ratio, but I always thought the lighting design in American Psycho was an aesthetic choice, albeit perhaps not the best one. Since the film has more of an ironic, almost tongue-in-cheek quality to it (as opposed to a David Fincher kind of atmosphere) I thought it was rather fitting. The film almost goes out of its way to showcase the lighting like a visual cue - as if to point out the wolf in sheep's clothing to the unassuming public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff L'Heureux Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 Even fans of the actual movie have been known to complain that Aliens vs. Predator: Requiem, was a little too dark for its own good in the lighting department in some places. Case in point: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Gregory Irwin Posted March 13, 2016 Premium Member Share Posted March 13, 2016 I actually thought the cinematography of "SPOTLIGHT" was extremely underwhelming. Pretty bad actually. Also, the camera operating was a bit shocking as well. G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Brereton Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 I always thought the lighting design in American Psycho was an aesthetic choice, albeit perhaps not the best one. I guess you could say it was a choice, given that they hired a DP who was known for lighting in that way. I was never a fan of his work, and everything I've ever read about him makes me think that his rather dogmatic approach to film stocks forced him into lighting decisions which were not necessarily the best choice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Mark Kenfield Posted March 14, 2016 Premium Member Share Posted March 14, 2016 I quite like the style of American Psycho. It wasn't at all what I was expecting coming from the book. But the film had a look of its own, and I think it worked for what it was. I actually thought the cinematography of "SPOTLIGHT" was extremely underwhelming. Pretty bad actually. Also, the camera operating was a bit shocking as well. G Agreed. I felt like I could feel references back to Willis' wonderful work on All The Presidents Men, and other newsroom dramas - but with far less engaging execution.I'm sure they were going for something along the lines of 'evil lurking in plain sight' with the mundane, documentary-esque aesthetic they applied. But I don't think it really added enough to the film to justify the choice over other options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted March 14, 2016 Premium Member Share Posted March 14, 2016 Most of the truly average stuff I can think of is TV. You could look at a number of British TV shows - things like Midsomer Murders - which are just incredibly flat and dull and fire-a-2K-into-the-ceiling. I mean no disrespect to the people who make them - well, not much - and it's mainly a time and money thing. These shows are production-lined into being, but they don't have to frame everything so... front-and-centre. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVRKpS1CJ_4 ...and that's the good stuff. On the upside, the theme tune features a theremin, which is enough to save more or less anything in my estimation. Or early Touch of Frost. It's so grainy you can see it on YouTube, and again, it looks like they blew it off in ten seconds under available light. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dg3FW_8LS_M I am not a fan of police procedurals, but sheesh, that's boring to look at. It's also very old, now, but it was never a looker. These may be soft targets, but hey - someone had to decide this was broadcastable. P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akos Baranya Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 I was going to recommend TV stuff too. Something that really caught my eye recently was the first season of Elementary, lighting seems all over the place sometimes. its a much bigger production than anything I have worked on, really don't mean any disrespect to the people making it. I guess my watching it right after Jessica Jones and Daredevil didn't help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freya Black Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 I am not a fan of police procedurals, but sheesh, that's boring to look at. It's also very old, now, but it was never a looker. These may be soft targets, but hey - someone had to decide this was broadcastable. P Someone had to decide this was broadcastable week after week after week! I'm more forgiving of a touch of frost because it was made a long time ago when standards were even lower in British TV and it was even more of a closed shop than it is these days but that midsommer murders thing is beyond the beyond scary and it's recent! As for framing too much front and centre, you are being unbelievably kind. What the F**8 is going on with that framing?!! It's rare that one of the characters isn't cut off awkwardly at the edge of the screen throughout this. I saw about two nice shots but then I didn't watch it all as it appears to be 4 hours long. It's a mess. You would get more interesting results with that robot that Lars-Von Trier used to shoot a movie. You know when the U.S. TV series "Mr Robot" comes to the UK nobody is going to understand what all the fuss is about the non-conventional framing because everyone must be used to watching random sh**! I now feel horrified I have said all that bad stuff about "Wolf Hall". Now I understand why it won all those awards here. Honestly top work chaps. I thought it looked quite crap but honestly I could tell you were making an effort and trying out some things that didn't work out so well. You know, apart from the DVD extras, which could have been shot better by the average 16 year old you tube celeb but yeah, mostly, I see how I was being unfair now. I shouldn't have to point this out to you Phil but Midsommer murders was made by all3media the largest indie in the UK for the largest commercial broadcaster in the UK who these days have national coverage. They should and can do better than this. Maybe they just need to stop hiring their staff based on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freya Black Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 Framing for midsommer murders: "Do you have the actors sort of in the frame then?" "Yeah we are good to go..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted March 14, 2016 Premium Member Share Posted March 14, 2016 A worthwhile and thoughtful contribution from the department of boiling vitriol, there. And I thought I was a griper! P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freya Black Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 A worthwhile and thoughtful contribution from the department of boiling vitriol, there. And I thought I was a griper! P It's not griping. It's anger. There are huge numbers of people trying to get by on about $10 a day in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freya Black Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 ...and what is going on with the eclipse. It's already well on it's way and people are still putting up signs about the eclipse. Talk about leaving things to the last minute! By the time they have their signs up it will have reached totality and they will need to think about taking them all down again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freya Black Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 Having looked at it again, I think it's probably more poor directing than just the cinematography. This would be very much in keeping with what I have seen on BBC sets in the past. Might explain the centre framing somewhat too. Anyway I have to rush out now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted March 14, 2016 Premium Member Share Posted March 14, 2016 I couldn't agree more. But to be fair, these problems are a result of someone saying "we need ninety minutes of television and you've got a week and a quid." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Dunn Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 ...and what is going on with the eclipse. It's already well on it's way and people are still putting up signs about the eclipse. Talk about leaving things to the last minute! By the time they have their signs up it will have reached totality and they will need to think about taking them all down again! Eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John E Clark Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 (edited) Most of the truly average stuff I can think of is TV. You could look at a number of British TV shows - things like Midsomer Murders - which are just incredibly flat and dull and fire-a-2K-into-the-ceiling. I mean no disrespect to the people who make them - well, not much - and it's mainly a time and money thing. These shows are production-lined into being, but they don't have to frame everything so... front-and-centre. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVRKpS1CJ_4 ...and that's the good stuff. On the upside, the theme tune features a theremin, which is enough to save more or less anything in my estimation. Or early Touch of Frost. It's so grainy you can see it on YouTube, and again, it looks like they blew it off in ten seconds under available light. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dg3FW_8LS_M I am not a fan of police procedurals, but sheesh, that's boring to look at. It's also very old, now, but it was never a looker. These may be soft targets, but hey - someone had to decide this was broadcastable. P I've watched the entire set of seasons for "Poirot" recently, and one can see the camera work change over the years... early on, a 'night' scene looked like daylight... but the actors were saying it was night... by the end of the series, like season 13... lighting was much better... I think the series started in 1989 or so, and ended in 2013 so one can see almost a 'generation' worth of lighting change... Edited March 14, 2016 by John E Clark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Bitic Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 Or early Touch of Frost. It's so grainy you can see it on YouTube, and again, it looks like they blew it off in ten seconds under available light. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dg3FW_8LS_M I am not a fan of police procedurals, but sheesh, that's boring to look at. It's also very old, now, but it was never a looker. These may be soft targets, but hey - someone had to decide this was broadcastable. P I don't mind that look. It's better than most current movies that are shown at cinemas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny N Suleimanagich Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 I actually thought the cinematography of "SPOTLIGHT" was extremely underwhelming. Pretty bad actually. Also, the camera operating was a bit shocking as well. G Disappointing, too, because I enjoyed the way "Black Mass" was shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Satsuki Murashige Posted March 14, 2016 Premium Member Share Posted March 14, 2016 I was going to recommend TV stuff too. Something that really caught my eye recently was the first season of Elementary, lighting seems all over the place sometimes. its a much bigger production than anything I have worked on, really don't mean any disrespect to the people making it. I guess my watching it right after Jessica Jones and Daredevil didn't help. Huh. I was going to say that I thought 'Elementary' looked great! Strange use of Dutch angles and ultra wide lenses at times, but lit very well and thoughtful application of lens height throughout. I watched it back-to-back with another police procedural 'Mysteries of Laura' which was not lit or shot nearly as well. I imagine some of that is due to the photographic requirements of the two lead actresses. Lucy Liu looks stunning and seems to look good no matter what light or lens you throw at her. I thought the lighting in 'Jessica Jones' was good, but some of those frames were just crazy. Didn't really make sense to me in the context of the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael LaVoie Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 In general, you can mostly look toward Holiday films like Love Actually, Christmas with the Kranks etc. for examples of horrible but extremely "mainstream" cinematography. Lighting that's flat as a pancake and totally unmotivated. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with those films or the DPs involved. I'm just saying that from an academic standpoint, you'll find lots of good examples of what not to do with your lighting in those films. At least, when it comes to applying those techniques to other genres like horror, action. etc. Although there's always a time and place and in family films, that's usually the time and place. Just throwing that out there. No offense to family filmmakers of course. It's totally appropriate to go high key and light everything up like a shopping mall when you're making films like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Satsuki Murashige Posted March 14, 2016 Premium Member Share Posted March 14, 2016 Regarding the flat lighting and lensing in a lot of modern comedies, Max Landis had some interesting things to say about the new 'Ghostbusters' trailer, genre conventions, and how cinematography contributes to the recognizable tone of a franchise: http://youtu.be/vfhXxdHv-qE#t=5m24s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freya Black Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 Eh? Sorry, yeah some context is helpful. I was talking about the Midsommer video that Phil posted at the start there is a plot about a solar eclipse. It makes sense if you watch the video but I suggest you don't bother. Freya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freya Black Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 I've watched the entire set of seasons for "Poirot" recently, and one can see the camera work change over the years... early on, a 'night' scene looked like daylight... but the actors were saying it was night... by the end of the series, like season 13... lighting was much better... I think the series started in 1989 or so, and ended in 2013 so one can see almost a 'generation' worth of lighting change... I think generally there has been an improvement in the quality of TV drama in the UK and more concern over the way it looks. There are a lot of cheap TV dramas like Ripper Street where they have clearly really made an effort to make something that looks good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now