Opinions On MasterClass?

[Alexandros Angelopoulos Apostolos]

Not sure how you can blame tracking shots on the writer.

 

It’s in the script. First it gets written as such, and then they shoot it as such. That is one of Sorkin’s trademarks, the so-called walk-and-talk.

[David Mullen ASC]

Sorkin is a fine, talented writer and was nominated and sometimes won important awards for his more recent projects -- the box office receipts are not an indication of how good a writer he is.

[Robin R Probyn]

Whats going on on this forum this days.. pocket camera weekend warriors are telling us Oscar winning DP,s are crap and don't know what they doing ..now students tell us Sorkin is some has been with nothing to say that anyone could learn from.. Jesus.. pass the gin Vicar..

 

As Aretha Franklin has said.. Respect.. just a little bit..

Edited September 1, 2016 by Robin R Probyn

[Brian Drysdale]

 

It’s in the script. First it gets written as such, and then they shoot it as such. That is one of Sorkin’s trademarks, the so-called walk-and-talk.

 

There are no shots described in at least the first half of the "Moneyball" script, there's dialogue, sound effects, hard cuts etc, but shots (tracking or otherwise) aren't mentioned.

[David Mullen ASC]

The irony of a Woody Allen fan complaining about a screenwriter who revisits familiar tropes and has a fondness for people having a conversation while walking...

[Michael Lehnert]

Whats going on on this forum this days.. pocket camera weekend warriors are telling us Oscar winning DP,s are crap and don't know what they doing ..now students tell us Sorkin is some has been with nothing to say that anyone could learn from.. Jesus.. pass the gin Vicar..

 

As Aretha Franklin has said.. Respect.. just a little bit..

 

I currently do a project at a rather famous European arts university, and what you say you observe is something that resonates with me. Plus I get the technical side of this full-on in the Super 8 forum here - the questions are quite something... B)

 

While I appreciate 'bilderstürmer' and challengers to 'emporic icons', those defiant provocations should at least come from a place where an alternative idea is formulated, or in the process of formulation. Rejection or despectability for its own sake without showcasing an alternative aesthetic approach, artistic idea, or solid argument for that destructive viewpoint, well, that's just moronic posing.

 

I think it was Eric Rohmer who said "La seule critique d'un film est de fair un autre.", the only critique of a film is to make another one (*). The Nouvelle Vague did that as material manifestation from Les Cahiers du Cinéma. Oddly enough, they had nothing but respect for the directors and cinematographers of the Hollywood System. Ah well...

 

_______

(*) don't quote me on that, but I can find it out once back in my home library

[Max Field]

It's literally youtube movie reviewer syndrome.

[Bill DiPietra]

Not even great, just good in general. I don't mean to say that YOU personally are saying that, but things with titles like "MASTERclass" imply it. One of the many evils of marketing I guess.

 

I took the ASC Masterclass and I do not consider myself a "master craftsman" by any means - but I learned a hell of a lot in five days. When I was applying, it said that it was for people with "intermediate to advanced" levels of experience (no beginner film-makers.) I consider myself to be around the lower echelons of intermediate and someone else obviously agreed. There were times in the class when I felt a little overwhelmed, but only in the sense that I was learning so much.

 

Don't let the title "masterclass" intimidate you. You're right - it's usually a marketing tool. But you should see it as a challenge. If we don't expand our limits every now and then, what's the point?...

[David Mullen ASC]

For what it's worth, this is the dictionary definition of a "master class":

 

mas·ter class

noun

a class, especially in music, given by an expert to highly talented students.

The implication is just that the class is advanced, not for beginners; I don't think it suggests that everyone who emerges will be geniuses in their field.

[Robin R Probyn]

 

I currently do a project at a rather famous European arts university, and what you say you observe is something that resonates with me. Plus I get the technical side of this full-on in the Super 8 forum here - the questions are quite something... B)

 

While I appreciate 'bilderstürmer' and challengers to 'emporic icons', those defiant provocations should at least come from a place where an alternative idea is formulated, or in the process of formulation. Rejection or despectability for its own sake without showcasing an alternative aesthetic approach, artistic idea, or solid argument for that destructive viewpoint, well, that's just moronic posing.

 

I think it was Eric Rohmer who said "La seule critique d'un film est de fair un autre.", the only critique of a film is to make another one (*). The Nouvelle Vague did that as material manifestation from Les Cahiers du Cinéma. Oddly enough, they had nothing but respect for the directors and cinematographers of the Hollywood System. Ah well...

 

_______

(*) don't quote me on that, but I can find it out once back in my home library

 

 

"hell is other people" John Paul Sartre

 

"Empty vessels make the most noise and some people are *ankers" The Bard..

Edited September 1, 2016 by Robin R Probyn

[Alexandros Angelopoulos Apostolos]

Sorkin is a fine, talented writer and was nominated and sometimes won important awards for his more recent projects -- the box office receipts are not an indication of how good a writer he is.

 

David, flop is a word that doesn’t immediately require box office as a collocation. Furthermore, I think that I never even mentioned the financial success in my post as a criterion of value. I said quite another thing. And even mentioned that I liked his most-hated show, Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip. I hate this selective picking of something I haven’t even said, complete disregard of what I did, and then jetting off with a view someone previously had as if a discussion never took place.

 

Sorkin, in the views of many, used to be highly regarded, and then, to the dismay of many of those many, turned out to be a one-trick pony with a weird compulsion of writing the same thing again and again. Something, some might say, he has in common with Woody Allen.

[Alexandros Angelopoulos Apostolos]

The irony of a Woody Allen fan complaining about a screenwriter who revisits familiar tropes and has a fondness for people having a conversation while walking...

 

Oh, look, I replied before I saw this. :) This is another one of common but completely wrong views – the other being that I’m a big fan of Vittorio Storaro’s cinematography – about why I posted about certain matters around here, but I decided long ago not to enter into any explanations about what I actually said, because, sadly, I understood long ago that it will just entangle the matters even more and people will leave with the attitude they had before having understood nothing of what I said.

 

Somehow I just got on the wrong foot with you ever since I first asked about that warmth in Woody Allen’s films, and even though I thought that, for a brief period in the last few months, our exchanges here much improved in attitude, now I realize that I was perhaps wrong. I just bug you a lot, don’t I. Rub you the wrong way. Or maybe I’m projecting. Because, let’s be honest, I do often come upon a post of yours that does irritate me, because I often have the impression of this deadpan, expressionless, dry attitude peppered with a little bit of ego and know-it-all superiority. Though one can’t quite reconcile that superiority with you helping a ton of people with your 20,000 posts, or how ever many there are now. Or perhaps one can, by saying that’s precisely where you draw your superiority from, by explaining everything to anyone and showcasing how much you know. I just couldn’t resist saying that. I don’t mean it in a mean way, but just had to put it out out there, because now that I said it, perhaps it will irritate me less or not at all. I guess that photo of yours with that look contributes a bit to this impression.

Edited September 2, 2016 by Alexandros Angelopoulos Apostolos

[Michael Lehnert]

 

 

"hell is other people" John Paul Sartre

 

"Empty vessels make the most noise and some people are *ankers" The Bard..

 

I don't want to appear as increasingly misanthrope, but over the past year, looking at the public discourses in civil society, I agree with Satre.

 

I am sure everyone here is very talented. I mean, some here we are regular forum users for over a decade. But just looking at the words people use here like "yesteryear writer"... dear me :wacko:

 

I would have robbed a bank to get $90 to spend on 6 hours of Werner Herzog, and here, for some, the takeaway seems to have been that "no storyboard" is a moronic advice.

If the participants don't have the critical thinking ability to deduct that when Herzog says that, it is a personal statement, and should not reflect general approach to filmmaking to everyone, I truly start to wonder.

Master Class means that a recognized master of the craft gives insight into his or her workflow and experience to high potential talent who have gained the skills and have the necessary experience to gain from that exposure. It's not first-year undergrad Cinematography 101 where you learn how to do the basics, such as remove lens cap from lens, or get a free-for-all to skip PreViz Techniques class.

:mellow:

[Stuart Brereton]

Somehow I just got on the wrong foot with you ever since I first asked about that warmth in Woody Allen’s films, and even though I thought that, for a brief period in the last few months, our exchanges here much improved in attitude, now I realize that I was perhaps wrong. I just bug you a lot, don’t I. Rub you the wrong way. Or maybe I’m projecting. Because, let’s be honest, I do often come upon a post of yours that does irritate me, because I often have the impression of this deadpan, expressionless, dry attitude peppered with a little bit of ego and know-it-all superiority. Though one can’t quite reconcile that superiority with you helping a ton of people with your 20,000 posts, or how ever many there are now. Or perhaps one can, by saying that’s precisely where you draw your superiority from, by explaining everything to anyone and showcasing how much you know. I just couldn’t resist saying that. I don’t mean it in a mean way, but just had to put it out out there, because now that I said it, perhaps it will irritate me less or not at all. I guess that photo of yours with that look contributes a bit to this impression.

David has been more than generous in answering your frequent questions, even when you apparently don't want to listen to the answers. It's a peculiar attitude, to post here looking for information, and then to accuse those who respond of condescension. Sadly, you're not alone in doing this. More and more often, I see posters here who regard their uninformed opinion as being as important as actual knowledge, and whose attitude reeks of entitlement.

 

You should keep your passive/aggressive insults to yourself, and be grateful that anyone takes the time to answer you.

[Bill DiPietra]

Somehow I just got on the wrong foot with you ever since I first asked about that warmth in Woody Allen’s films, and even though I thought that, for a brief period in the last few months, our exchanges here much improved in attitude, now I realize that I was perhaps wrong. I just bug you a lot, don’t I. Rub you the wrong way. Or maybe I’m projecting. Because, let’s be honest, I do often come upon a post of yours that does irritate me, because I often have the impression of this deadpan, expressionless, dry attitude peppered with a little bit of ego and know-it-all superiority. Though one can’t quite reconcile that superiority with you helping a ton of people with your 20,000 posts, or how ever many there are now. Or perhaps one can, by saying that’s precisely where you draw your superiority from, by explaining everything to anyone and showcasing how much you know. I just couldn’t resist saying that. I don’t mean it in a mean way, but just had to put it out out there, because now that I said it, perhaps it will irritate me less or not at all. I guess that photo of yours with that look contributes a bit to this impression.

 

Okay...I've been watching all of the threads with nasty posts in them for over six months. Many of them took a turn for the worst when students or so-called know-it-alls (sometimes that's a two-for-one special) felt their opinions were gospel and were told otherwise by more experienced forum members. I come on this forum to learn and to contribute what little I can - not to read personal attacks.

 

THIS BEHAVIOR NEEDS TO STOP!!!

 

Alexandros - your post is just the most recent example of this. Your attack upon David - probably the most helpful and patient member in this forum - is inexcusable. I have seen David, Stuart, Satsuki, Phil and others answer many of your questions, as well as those posed by other "new members."

 

 

Or perhaps one can, by saying that’s precisely where you draw your superiority from, by explaining everything to anyone and showcasing how much you know. I just couldn’t resist saying that.

 

 

Or, maybe he actually enjoys teaching & helping others! What a concept! Having been one of his students at the ASC class, I can tell you that David is an excellent teacher. So maybe you should take a look in the mirror, Alexandros, and scrutinize your own insecurities instead of attacking other members' wealths of knowledge.

 

 

I don’t mean it in a mean way, but just had to put it out out there, because now that I said it, perhaps it will irritate me less or not at all. I guess that photo of yours with that look contributes a bit to this impression.

 

I have no words for this last part...

[Max Field]

 

Or perhaps one can, by saying that’s precisely where you draw your superiority from, by explaining everything to anyone and showcasing how much you know.

 

I'm not calling anyone an "egomaniac" or whatever, but if David has a sense of superiority, has it occurred to that he's earned it? Like one of maybe three active members who've worked on projects I've actually heard of before joining this forum?

 

If you couldn't tell by now, I hold values of capitalism very near and dear. Never felt "superiority" or "ego" were negative words.

 

And I'm now batting .467 on starting threads that turn into fights.

Edited September 2, 2016 by Macks Fiiod

[Wilfried E. Keil]

I attended a "masterclass" of Werner Herzog at the Festival del Film Locarno in 2013.

Many things were not new to me, because I attended a fimschool, but he told many interesting things from his experience and there were a few really useful hints. So I can say it was more useful then other "masterclasses" I attended.

If you want to make your own opinon, then you can watch the Locarno "masterclass" for free and then you can decide if you want to spend 90$ for some more hours.

 

Link:

[Max Field]

Takeaways after the Sorkin Masterclass... I got a refund.

 

I think Tyler mentioned he wouldn't give away trade secrets in the course, which is understandable. However I went through about a quarter of the 35 lessons offered (at all stages) and nothing really grazed technicality or any theory you could consider "intermediate".

 

MASTERclass needs to be renamed. The production value is fine but you won't learn anything unless you're seriously wet behind the ears.

 

If anyone wants more detail on it give a holler.