John-Erling Holmenes Fredriksen Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 I’m intending to do some double exposures on 16mm film with an Arri 416 camera. The most rudimentary method I could think of is just expose the entire roll (one stop underexposed, or however I feel is appropriate for the subject), make notes of the contents, and then reload the same film to shoot the second layer. But sometimes it would be really convenient to be able to just «rewind» the film right away to do the second layer. As far as I can see from the manual, there is no such function in the camera. I guess you could open the mag and do it manually, but it sounds cumbersome. Anyone done this and know a good method that I haven’t though of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicholas Kovats Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 Hi John, The Arri 416 apparently emulates the design of the Aaton 16mm cameras and also their lack of internal motorized reverse coupled to a frame counter. However, there are motorized reverse alternatives available, i.e. 1. Internal motorized reverse coupled to frame counter re: 35mm cams,e.g. Arri 235, 435, 535, Moviecam, Mitchell, etc. 2. External motorized reverse coupled to frame counter re: 16mm , e.g. Arri 16S/ST/M, Bolex w/ Revolution motor, Mitchell, etc. 3. Internal motorized reverse coupled to frame counter re: Super8/Single8, e.g. Fujica ZC1000 w/ C-Mount - entire 50ft of Single 8 cart can be back wound or reverse filmed. Excellent flat registration at the gate due to the 50ft vertical displacement mag/cart design. Cheers! Nicholas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John-Erling Holmenes Fredriksen Posted September 5, 2019 Author Share Posted September 5, 2019 Just to follow up. We did this effect using the 416. But discovered that we could not simply shoot out the roll and reload it, because it would then be upside down with the sprockets on the wrong side. So we had to shoot out the roll and then manually roll it back into the feed compartment inside a loading tent. It was time consuming ? We could not access another camera that could actually rewind, but I would recommend that to do this efficiently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicholas Kovats Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 Interesting and thanks for the followup benefiting future Arri 416 users. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Tyler Purcell Posted September 6, 2019 Premium Member Share Posted September 6, 2019 On 9/5/2019 at 1:53 AM, John-Erling Holmenes Fredriksen said: Just to follow up. We did this effect using the 416. But discovered that we could not simply shoot out the roll and reload it, because it would then be upside down with the sprockets on the wrong side. So we had to shoot out the roll and then manually roll it back into the feed compartment inside a loading tent. It was time consuming ? We could not access another camera that could actually rewind, but I would recommend that to do this efficiently. Yea it's the same problem with all of the 400ft load cameras. You can't rewind the film in camera. It's only the speciality cameras like the Bolex that can do the rewind in camera. What I would do for double exposure on 16mm is shoot a 100ft daylight spool, rather than a 400ft load. Then simply rewind the film back onto the daylight spool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John-Erling Holmenes Fredriksen Posted October 4, 2019 Author Share Posted October 4, 2019 (edited) Thanks, that’s a good idea! For anyone interested, this is the final video with the effect: https://vimeo.com/364123783 Edited October 4, 2019 by John-Erling Holmenes Fredriksen Fixed link 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg MacPherson Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Rewinding a load on a core, 400' if needed, should be no problem, for the double exposure. Using much the same methods as when breaking down 2000/2400' rolls to 400'. Split spools can be useful. A simple platter that holds the film on one side only is useful. If one is feeling ballsy, one can hold the 400' roll, with ones finger tips, on one rewind spindle and wind it onto the platter on the other rewind spindle. The platter. I made one that was just an aluminium plate screwed to a bobbin that fitted the film core. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick O'Malley Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Congratulations on the finished film, John. You've achieved a really nice look with it and I think the double-exposures are successful and really help the overall feel. How did you meter your shots with the double exposures in mind? thanks Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicholas Kovats Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Well done! Beautiful haunting simple song paired with excellent visuals. The short subtle double-exposures worked well. Does the vimeo link represent the final version? Or is additional post planned to remove the occasional film based artifacts, e.g. dustballs, startup flash frame re: motor ramp up, etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Uli Meyer Posted October 4, 2019 Premium Member Share Posted October 4, 2019 Beautiful images, thank you for sharing. Seeing this is a wonderful example of how film can look so special. Really well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Joel W Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Looks great. Hawk 1.3 anamorphic? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webster Colcord Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Very nice! Love the double exposures. Curious - your image looks wider than Super 16, but it also doesn't look cropped top and bottom. Plus the flares - what were the anamorphics that you shot with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John-Erling Holmenes Fredriksen Posted October 6, 2019 Author Share Posted October 6, 2019 On 10/4/2019 at 3:11 PM, Patrick O'Malley said: Congratulations on the finished film, John. You've achieved a really nice look with it and I think the double-exposures are successful and really help the overall feel. How did you meter your shots with the double exposures in mind? thanks Patrick Thanks! As a starting point I underexposed a stop, setting the ISO to half the amount. But I of course made some individual judgement for each frame, depending on what I wanted to see. For example the shadow side of their faces I wanted to be see through, to fill them with the next exposure, so I made sure they were well under, exposing for the details outside the window instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John-Erling Holmenes Fredriksen Posted October 6, 2019 Author Share Posted October 6, 2019 On 10/4/2019 at 6:04 PM, Nicholas Kovats said: Well done! Beautiful haunting simple song paired with excellent visuals. The short subtle double-exposures worked well. Does the vimeo link represent the final version? Or is additional post planned to remove the occasional film based artifacts, e.g. dustballs, startup flash frame re: motor ramp up, etc? Thanks! Film based artifacts were intentional, it's the final version ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John-Erling Holmenes Fredriksen Posted October 6, 2019 Author Share Posted October 6, 2019 On 10/4/2019 at 8:27 PM, M Joel W said: Looks great. Hawk 1.3 anamorphic? Correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John-Erling Holmenes Fredriksen Posted October 6, 2019 Author Share Posted October 6, 2019 On 10/4/2019 at 8:27 PM, Webster C said: Very nice! Love the double exposures. Curious - your image looks wider than Super 16, but it also doesn't look cropped top and bottom. Plus the flares - what were the anamorphics that you shot with? Hawk 1.3x anamorphics, makes scope out of S16mm (or 16:9 out of 4:3). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Tyler Purcell Posted October 6, 2019 Premium Member Share Posted October 6, 2019 Yea it came out beautiful! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Satsuki Murashige Posted October 7, 2019 Premium Member Share Posted October 7, 2019 Gorgeous work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webster Colcord Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 What were the stocks used? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John-Erling Holmenes Fredriksen Posted October 18, 2019 Author Share Posted October 18, 2019 On 10/7/2019 at 11:18 PM, Webster C said: What were the stocks used? Mostly Vision 3 500T (also for daylight), but the double exposures were expired Fuji Eterna 250D 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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