Montell Taraschewski Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 Hello everyone! Upon looking through various pages on the web I’ve stumbled across this rather weird super wide angle lens made by Kinoptik in the early 60s. Browsing the patent number only shows a diagram showing the layout of the optical elements. Does anyone know what kind of camera this lens was made for and if there are any images taken with one somewhere? And maybe even some insight into the history of this lens? Also I’m curious if it would be possible to adapt this lens onto PL Mount in order to use it on a S16 camera (assuming the image circle is large enough to cover it) Greetings, Montell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Uli Meyer Posted January 30, 2022 Premium Member Share Posted January 30, 2022 Quick google Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montell Taraschewski Posted January 30, 2022 Author Share Posted January 30, 2022 Thanks Uli. But I’ve both shoot on the 9.8mm & 5.7mm Teaga and that’s not it. The lens shown on the pictures is a different one. Especially given its massive convex front element. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montell Taraschewski Posted January 30, 2022 Author Share Posted January 30, 2022 This is the patent for the Super Teaga F=1,98mm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Dom Jaeger Posted January 30, 2022 Premium Member Share Posted January 30, 2022 Some info in this Kinoptik brochure: https://www.pacificrimcamera.com/rl/01254/01254.pdf It was a specialist fisheye lens, probably made for full sky filming/photography or industrial applications. Came in C mount and Alpha mount, but only covers an 8.7mm diameter circle, so it would vignette on 16mm. The back focus is 9mm so it would need a specially modified camera, since C mount is usually 17.52mm. The full image circle covers nearly a 200 degree angle. Kinoptik made all sorts of interesting optics, for movies, aerial and space, instrumentation, underwater, high speed, micro-film etc. Check out this brochure that lists a 65mm f/0.7 lens for 16mm, among other curiosities: https://www.pacificrimcamera.com/rl/00034/00034.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Uli Meyer Posted January 30, 2022 Premium Member Share Posted January 30, 2022 Amazing. There’s one lens with a 50k price tag which in the 1960s was the equivalent of $450000. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montell Taraschewski Posted January 31, 2022 Author Share Posted January 31, 2022 Wow Dom! Thanks for all the information! They really made some interesting lenses back in the day. Do you happen to know what happend to Kinoptik? Did they shut down or were they bought by some mayor brand? For anyone keen on buying the Kinoptik F=1.98mm, here’s the link to its eBay listing. https://www.ebay.de/itm/KINOPTIK-SUPER-TEGEA-1-1-9-F-1-98-mm-in-Holzkiste-/234398462092?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l6249&mkrid=707-127634-2357-0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Dom Jaeger Posted January 31, 2022 Premium Member Share Posted January 31, 2022 It’s hard to find much information on Kinoptik. I believe they were sold in 1981, repurposed to endoscopic and industrial applications via various mergers until finally being liquidated in 2018, but Vantage managed to source their remaining inventory of Apochromats and rehouse them in 2015: https://www.fdtimes.com/2015/11/11/vantage-vintage-kinoptik/ Here’s the French Wikipedia entry on them (translated for those of us whose French is alas a little rusty): https://fr-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog/wiki/Kinoptik?_x_tr_sl=fr&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-GB&_x_tr_pto=wapp 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jannik Tesch Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 (edited) On 1/30/2022 at 12:52 PM, Dom Jaeger said: The back focus is 9mm so it would need a specially modified camera, since C mount is usually 17.52mm. Hi Dom, do you have more information on how this could be adapted? I am specifically asking for the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K with MFT mount. Thanks in advance! EDIT: This website claims: "Cinema lens for 16mm movie cameras, easily adapted to Arriflex and more modern cinema systems." Edited March 8, 2022 by Jannik Tesch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jannik Tesch Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 EDIT 2: From an archived eBay auction: "It is usable, e.g. with RED, Sony F5 & F55 in the Center Crop, of course also with the BMPCC or also with the Blackmagic URSA Broadcast with full 4k. Including a simple C-mount on MFT (Micro Four Third) Mount for use e.g. at a BMPCC." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Dom Jaeger Posted March 8, 2022 Premium Member Share Posted March 8, 2022 I’d have to check one personally to make sure, but it’s possible the back focus measurement they give in the Kinoptik literature refers to the distance from the rear element to the film plane, but it uses a standard C mount. In other words, the rear element protrudes 8.5mm past the C mount flange (which would make it incompatible with a number of reflex 16mm C mount film cameras like a Bolex or a Beaulieu but ok with some other cameras). It certainly could not be adapted to any Arriflex, which all have a 52mm flange depths, so the rear element would extend 43mm inside the mount and would most certainly hit any mirror shutter (not to mention the aperture ring would be unreachable). Many digital cinema cameras have OLPFs, cover glasses and baffles in front of the sensor which will foul on a lens that protrudes too far back, so I would be wary of mounting this to a Red or Sony, regardless of that eBay description. It would probably be ok on mirrorless cameras that have short flange depths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jannik Tesch Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 Thanks, Dom! Seems like one can not be be certain before purchasing and testing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Hart Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 (edited) There was a rehousing of the Kinoptik 9.8mm by Century in PL-Mount with standard pitch gears. The rehousing was essentially a wraparound and it was a heavy brute. The image yield is rectilinear. With such a wide field-of-view, the image becomes diagonally stretched in the corners which leads to a somewhat weird look when the lens is used indoors. The protective metal shroud around the rear optical element was removed I guess for shutter clearance reasons. Another unmodified lens with an ARRI standard mount has a portion of the protective shroud machined away for shutter clearance. Full removal on the Century version left the rear element vulnerable to damage. This lens and the 16mm film-camera cousin the 5.7mm were not the sharpest kids on the block. The 5.7mm was apparently used along with a zoom by Robert Rodriguez on his early film, "El Mariachi". Later versions of the lenses had filter slots between the front element and rear group of elements. My understanding is that a clear filter had to be fitted for the lens to remain correctly collimated to the film camera. The 16mm camera version had no focus adjustment at all. Apparently they were set up to be in acceptably sharp focus from about 3ft to infinity. With the C-Mount version, I cheated a little and undercut a custom C'Mount-IMS-Mount adaptor so that I could trim focus to best infinity with a bare mount and use a shim on the tail of the lens C-Mount tail for close focus. The 9.8mm lens vignettes on cameras with a sensor image wider than the original 35mm film camera gate. The 5.7mm lens covers Super 16mm. If your interest in this lens remains, I can take an image of both with a vernier to demonstrate the distance rearwards of the flange face the entire structure of the lens protrudes into the camera throat. Edited April 6, 2022 by Robert Hart error Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jannik Tesch Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 Thanks for all thank great information, Robert. Yes, I still have interest in the 1.98mm lens. Unfortunately in the end I wasn't able to buy the one on eBay. I am not so much interested in the 9.8mm and 5.7mm. I already own an Angenieux Type R7 5.9mm which covers Super 16, which must have been the direct competitor to the Tegea 5.7mm I assume. It has a fixed focus, but unfortunately it is not set to infinity. But I can actually change that myself, because it is a Cameflex mount lens and the Cameflex to MFT adapter I use is basically a tube. So by pulling the lens out and pushing it in I actually can rack focus :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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