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Low-Budget Scanning For Indie Features


Thomas Beach

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7 hours ago, Perry Paolantonio said:

I don't think this is a matter of the lens not working properly, I think it's probably just that it's the lens that fit FilmFabriek's budget and mechanical constraints, and it is what it is. 

100% agreed. I think I echoed that as well few days ago. The lens "works", it's just inexpensive. Sadly, the optical path is not long enough to use a decent focal length lens. 

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On 7/11/2022 at 11:15 PM, Tyler Purcell said:

100% agreed. I think I echoed that as well few days ago. The lens "works", it's just inexpensive. Sadly, the optical path is not long enough to use a decent focal length lens. 

What focal length is that lens? 50mm ? 80mm ? F4 Makro-Iris

Depending on what it is the lens may just be out of it's optimal magnification range.

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On 8/27/2022 at 1:56 PM, Robert Houllahan said:

What focal length is that lens? 50mm ? 80mm ? F4 Makro-Iris

Depending on what it is the lens may just be out of it's optimal magnification range.

It’s the 40mm APO-Componon f2.8

I think Schneider have renamed the product line pyrite

On 7/12/2022 at 1:15 PM, Tyler Purcell said:

100% agreed. I think I echoed that as well few days ago. The lens "works", it's just inexpensive. Sadly, the optical path is not long enough to use a decent focal length lens. 

Why would you want a longer optical path? 
And longer focal length? 
I’m really not sure it would improve the design. 

larger scanners like a scanstation use an APS-C or larger sized sensor. They would need a longer extension between the sensor and lens. Just like on the HDS when you scan 4K you spin the extension tube to move the lens away as you’ve essentially increased the size of the sensor used.

But it reduces the amount of light too.

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10 hours ago, Andrew Wise said:

Why would you want a longer optical path?

And longer focal length? 

I’m really not sure it would improve the design.

If you look into the lens specs and talk to the lens manufacturers you will find that there are optimal magnification ranges for all of these lenses. Imaging what is basically a transparency with the lens the led lamp and the size of the sensor is a bit of a trick with multiple film gauges. If you have a lens which images the film to the sensor and is optimally focused you can still not get the best detail and sharpest scan image if the lens is not best for that magnification range.

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The Restroscan Universal Mark II can be set up for overscan or a tighter frame for best resolution. Stock was Gevacolor XT 320 neg shot during 1980s, over-exposed a half stop.  

TEST NEG SCAN.jpg

Edited by Robert Hart
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On 8/31/2022 at 11:15 PM, Robert Hart said:

The Restroscan Universal Mark II can be set up for overscan or a tighter frame for best resolution.

As I mentioned back here, the issues are its very old camera, poor quality light, non-flashing light, uneven illumination across the film, lack of proper diffusion to conceal base damage, lack of film gates, lack of speed control, and the crippled capture software. To get proper quality out of a RUMkII takes a lot of work and requires someone who is technical and has a strong DIY mentality which most of their users do not have.

Low cost scanners don't equal low-cost scanning anyway. A ScanStation can do commercial scanning work, even if run at 7fps, for lower cost compared to a Retroscan. One of my friends has modified his RUMkII in order to get very close to the ScanStation quality, but the only thing he actually uses it for is for warped film since he made warped gates for it and he hasn't created them for his ScanStation yet (you can buy the warped film kit from Lasergraphics but it's expensive and  he's capable of designing his own). That's because even if he gets the quality to match or exceed the ScanStation, it's still a slower scanner that scans to DNG that needs to be debayered and re-encoded to a deliverable format. It doesn't equal the quality anyway because he isn't flashing the light, and even if he was the SS has a significantly higher-end light compared to how he built his DIY Retroscan light. The Lasergraphics scans straight to the deliverable format and rarely needs in-reel adjustments or re-scans to fix problems, and two-flash HDR basically takes care of the Bayer mask.

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If you want to DIY I would strongly encourage a look at the DCS Xena system.

You can buy a full running pinless GPU registered scanner or a full running Oxberry pin reg scanner but you can also buy modular parts from them to build your own machine. The software is extremely sophisticated and has all the features like GPU perf stabilization and proper sound reading. There are basic modules and when is supplied is the software, a motion control and LED lamp control module and a LED lr LED+ IR lamp.

I put more than 200,000 rolls of 8mm through our 4K Xena in the last four or five years with excellent results for example and scans from the 5K and 6.5K Xena machines have run for NFL Films Nike Major music videos and features etc.

http://digitalcinemasystems.net/?page_id=17

 

 

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On 9/19/2022 at 2:18 PM, Robert Houllahan said:

If you want to DIY I would strongly encourage a look at the DCS Xena system.

You can buy a full running pinless GPU registered scanner or a full running Oxberry pin reg scanner but you can also buy modular parts from them to build your own machine. The software is extremely sophisticated and has all the features like GPU perf stabilization and proper sound reading. There are basic modules and when is supplied is the software, a motion control and LED lamp control module and a LED lr LED+ IR lamp.

I put more than 200,000 rolls of 8mm through our 4K Xena in the last four or five years with excellent results for example and scans from the 5K and 6.5K Xena machines have run for NFL Films Nike Major music videos and features etc.

http://digitalcinemasystems.net/?page_id=17

 

 

That's an impressive machine. They offer training videos and they give you all the prices upfront!

Does it come with a dedicated computer like the Lasergraphics or do you supply your own?

How is the image qualty for 16mm compared to the Lasergraphics? You mention 8mm. Is that your main use for it?

How is it with warped film? Maybe they will make a tabletop archivist model. 

 

 

Edited by Daniel D. Teoli Jr.
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1 hour ago, Daniel D. Teoli Jr. said:

That's an impressive machine. They offer training videos and they give you all the prices upfront!

Does it come with a dedicated computer like the Lasergraphics or do you supply your own?

How is the image qualty for 16mm compared to the Lasergraphics? You mention 8mm. Is that your main use for it?

How is it with warped film? Maybe they will make a tabletop archivist model. 

 

 

I Have two Xena running a Spirit 2K a Spirit 4K an Arriscan and a Scan Station SSP with HDR now.

I am likely winding down the use of the Spirit(s) as they are great but complex and power hungry.

The Xena system is sort of what you build it to be, or what you have them build for you. I am re-arraigning one Xena shortly adding a 9.4K x 7K sensor that will scan 8mm 16mm 35mm and 65mm/70mm. The current Xena 6.5K config has been used to scan work for NFL Films Nike Studio TV and major Music Video work in 16mm and 35mm. It makes DPX frames and is not slow but not fast either. Xena has features like GPU Perf stabilization. I have a second Xena with a 4K Sony pregius (4112x3008) sensor that I run all of my 8mm on at Cinelab, I can scan 16mm and 35mm on that machine I just run 8mm on it though mostly.

Scan Station is unparalleled in it's dead reliability near bug free and fast operation, the scanner just works and runs like a top. Argue the fine points but everyone has a Scan Station and they work.

Xena is fussier and you can get access to all the "under the hood" stuff you can build you own transport configs quickly so if you have 7 perf 35mm scientific film from a camera built by a maniac by hand you can just config the transport and GPU perf stabilization to run it.

You can DIY a IMAX gate and transport setup and config a Xena to work. You can select the camera you want and integrate it. So build a Xena with a 6.5K Sony and a top quality lens and you can get results on par with Scan Station or Kinetta it will not be as fast nor as dead reliable as a LaserGraphics scanner but it works and works well.

Totally different approaches to building a scanner.

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On 9/22/2022 at 2:37 PM, Robert Houllahan said:

I Have two Xena running a Spirit 2K a Spirit 4K an Arriscan and a Scan Station SSP with HDR now.

Lasergraphics finally let you have HDR on the SS Personal?

On 9/22/2022 at 2:37 PM, Robert Houllahan said:

Scan Station is unparalleled in it's dead reliability near bug free and fast operation, the scanner just works and runs like a top. Argue the fine points but everyone has a Scan Station and they work.

They can have bugs, however even with bugs they are dead-reliable. You rarely need to put film through them more than once, and that would be important to many customers that don't want their film "over handled". They'll cope with warped film that other scanners won't do as well.

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3 hours ago, Dan Baxter said:

Lasergraphics finally let you have HDR on the SS Personal?

They can have bugs, however even with bugs they are dead-reliable. You rarely need to put film through them more than once, and that would be important to many customers that don't want their film "over handled". They'll cope with warped film that other scanners won't do as well.

Well they did not "let" me have HDR for the SSP I paid allot for it, but it fixes my primary issue with the machine which is the FPN on the 5K Cmosis camera and that makes it a more useful machine for 35mm and 16mm scanning.

The Scan Station has some sharp turns so it is not perfect for the most warped film but it works mostly, I have put film through the Xena that just would not go through the Scan Station.

 

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51 minutes ago, Robert Houllahan said:

Well they did not "let" me have HDR for the SSP I paid allot for it, but it fixes my primary issue with the machine which is the FPN on the 5K Cmosis camera and that makes it a more useful machine for 35mm and 16mm scanning.

Yeah I meant "let you buy it" since it was a feature that to my knowledge was never offered for sale to any SSP customer, so I'm glad to hear they finally changed their mind on it.

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