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Krasnogorsk 3 and Sound


John Walbolt
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Hey, I just ordered a Krasnorogrsk 3 and I'm super excited about it. I know the motor is loud and it's not a crystal sync motor, but is it possible to muffle the noise from the camera so you can record sound separately? I've seen a few videos of people filming their subject from far away to avoid the noise, but has anyone trying wrapping the body of the camera with something to dampen the sound?

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It is possible to try to correct some of the speed instability problems in editing to make the end result somewhat watchable but it does not make much sense if it is not a youtube challenge or something instead of a real project. 

I recommend trying the approach of shooting some scenes mos using the k3 to save money and then renting a blimped crystal sync camera for the sound scenes.

The camera noise of the k3 can be a little bit blimped but the spring mechanism instability and the short maximum take lenghts of the spring are a real pita if trying to do any kind of sound work.

You should get a basic sound capable N16 camera with lens or two for something like 2k if you can cut corners. If you really want to do sound stuff this would be the bare minimum to do that. A spring camera can be fun to make experiments with with sound but it does not work well in real shooting situations and is thus a very bad option. Spring cameras are great for mos scenes and I would use them for that instead

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Hello, i reckon that if you film in a way that is an effective work around, then you may be happy with the results. Shoot for 20 sec at a time, short conversation, easier to synch later. Avoid long shots. Use cardiod mic, or lapel, mics that do not pick up everything are best. Experiment with sound deadening products, i included a link of the blimp i made years ago

http://www.mishkin.yolasite.com/super8-camera-blimp.php

There are many ingenious work arounds that film makers have used since the early days... just takes alot more effort...

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30 minutes ago, Gareth Blackstock said:

Shoot for 20 sec at a time, short conversation, easier to synch later.

It won't stay in sync for more than a few seconds, it has a windup motor, unlike super 8 cameras which are mostly electronic. 

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2 hours ago, Tyler Purcell said:

It won't stay in sync for more than a few seconds, it has a windup motor, unlike super 8 cameras which are mostly electronic. 

Windup has a relatively predictable way it slows down during the take and one can thus add a dynamic speed charge in edit to try to counter the spring motor slowing down. But it lowers down the image quality and the short max take length makes syncing more difficult because you dont have much time to get the slates done let alone the actual take. A 25 second take which has to include one or two slates is ridiculously short for a sync sound take and makes it difficult to act too.

It would be much better to have a old eclair or cinema products camera for the sync scenes to get stabler speed and longer takes for sync shots. Then the mos stuff can be shot with k3 if that is easiest way to work.

Saying, all stuff which is possible to do is not practical in real world situations and k3 for sound shots is one of those things

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14 hours ago, aapo lettinen said:

Saying, all stuff which is possible to do is not practical in real world situations and k3 for sound shots is one of those things

Exactly lol 😛

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You can record a rehearsal before you film, then capture wild sound with the camera running, then substitute in the edit. Or just go all Sergio Leone- play mood music on set and have the actors dub it in later. 

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Also, recently  this:

McGregor reveals all the dialogue in Attack of the Clones had to be re-recorded. In an interview with SlashFilm, McGregor says that the new digital cameras they used to film Attack of the Clonescreated a strange hum that the filmmakers later discovered was the same frequency as human voices. All the actors had to come in and perform Additional Dialogue Recording (more commonly known as ADR) on film as none of the dialogue was usable, meaning the entire film was recorded in ADR. 
read the article Here
 

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16 hours ago, Jim Perry said:

meaning the entire film was recorded in ADR. 

Getting good ADR is very difficult. It's way easier to get good audio on set and it's also. more realistic sounding. Most films try hard to not ADR due to cost. 

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Good audio is important which is why I rarely rely on just the sounds in front of me. I mostly use a couple of Zooms which are super handy as you can tape them to nearly anything. Then, in the edit, I grab the sounds I want and stack them to create a good track. Sometimes, I have actors pre-record their lines (where they can read them) to ensure I have good clean audio in the bank. It’s pretty easy to cover up with good B Roll or reaction shots. 
At a project I did at a circle track, I just taped a Zoom H1n to my camera and let it run the whole time. The few bits of spoken words I just filmed the real action first then held the camera close and had them repeat it. 
And hey, planes can go over, crew can sneeze, things can fall, you can give directions during filming, etc. Speeds up production. Besides, if it was good enough for Fellini it’s good enough for me!

39CEDE80-A618-4509-8794-1FF4EC7261D0.jpeg

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All depends I suppose on the duration of the dialogue.  In any case it must be quite short due to the spring motor wind of K3, so you have maybe already planned for this.   Regarding the speed fluctuation, if the camera is in good order I think it should hold a fairly constant speed for the first 10 seconds, so not great but enough for short snatches if that's OK for your project.  Jim's suggestion of recording during the rehearsal is a good one and should work hopefully.

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2 hours ago, Jim Perry said:

Besides, if it was good enough for Fellini it’s good enough for me!

Well, audiences of the Fellini period, were use to dubbing being horrible. Audiences today, see it as a problem and they'll just think your product is poorly made. If that's what you're going after, then so be it. But reality is, technical issues are a huge bugaboo in modern production, unless you're purposely aiming for poor audio synching for a specific reason. 

I for sure do wild lines, but generally only use them when mouths can't be seen. They aren't a replacement or backup for on-set dialog. 

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Or...as Jim adds,  just after the shot taken,  maybe more reliable I don't know.  One thing which may be of concern: the actor's performance could be upset by the loud noise from the camera.  Grimacing ?😬  Shouting ? Maybe the best way with an unblimped camera is the tele end of the zoom lens.  But blimps are fun to make if you have the time, an old box and some carpet etc.

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Doug might be onto it. Robert Rodriguez did the same when filming El Mariachi with an Arri 16mm camera that was quite noisy. He’d film the scene once with the camera and then again with the audio, using a Marantz cassette recorder and a Radio Shack microphone. 
Here’s a good article about it.

Guerilla Filmmaking- El Mariachi
 

The main obstacle the production faced was in regards to sound. The downfall of the Arriflex was the motor was too loud to allow for recording audio simultaneously. The only work around for this was to shoot each scene twice. The first take would be the scene shot silently with the camera, while the second take would be acted in front of the microphone and tape recorder, both being synced later on in post.

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