Premium Member Ali Shah Posted October 22, 2022 Premium Member Share Posted October 22, 2022 Hi Folks, I've been trying to get some practice processing ECN2 negs by running them in small quantity through a still camera and so far its been delivering good results. Today I remixed my developer (only) and got a very different base color, with all sorts of wonky color casts upon scanning. It also looks like I've over cooked the negative. Please see attached. It's not 100% clear through the phone camera, in reality, the negative on the bottom has a yellow/green cast to its base color, while the negatives on the top have a more peachy tone. The top two strips are from previous processing runs, and the bottom strip is the one I completed this evening. Would greatly appreciate any help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Ali Shah Posted October 22, 2022 Author Premium Member Share Posted October 22, 2022 Oh I should mention: all three strips are Vision3 500T. The first and the third are from the same can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Dunn Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 Obviously if you change a processing chemical there can be differences in colour, but if you are sure of your processing I don't think the mask colour is significant. You might expect the 35mm. and 65mm. stocks to look different if they are different ages and have been stored differently- I assume the 65mm is much older. I know nothing about MP scanning, but I think what matters is not that the scans are different, but that the colour can be corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Ali Shah Posted October 22, 2022 Author Premium Member Share Posted October 22, 2022 Hi thanks for your reply. I'm beginning to wonder if my bleach went bad, or if the fixer is kaput- the scans are over exposed and pulling them back has been difficult. Im hoping to see if anyone who's run bleach bypass could confirm this possibility? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Sponsor Robert Houllahan Posted October 23, 2022 Site Sponsor Share Posted October 23, 2022 What kind of chemistry are you using? How well controlled is your developer temp? Offhand it does look overdeveloped and could have silver retention. You might want to take a look at the ECN2 manual from Kodak and get some hypo test liquid from B&H to see how saturated your fixer is. https://www.kodak.com/en/motion/page/processing-manuals https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=hypo+check&N=0 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel D. Teoli Jr. Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 Here is a discussion on it... ECN-2 Troubleshooting | Photrio.com Photography Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Ali Shah Posted October 23, 2022 Author Premium Member Share Posted October 23, 2022 10 hours ago, Robert Houllahan said: What kind of chemistry are you using? How well controlled is your developer temp? Offhand it does look overdeveloped and could have silver retention. You might want to take a look at the ECN2 manual from Kodak and get some hypo test liquid from B&H to see how saturated your fixer is. https://www.kodak.com/en/motion/page/processing-manuals https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=hypo+check&N=0 Hi! I'm using the QWD kit, I control the developer temperature in a water bath, and thermometer read 100.7F.. For agitation I was using continuous rotary agitation 30 rotations a minute. I tried re-mixing the bleach, and fixer, and went through the bleach- fix process again to no avail. I'm beginning to wonder if the developer chemical was not mixed well in the distilled water prior to pouring it into the tank. QWD kits mention to add the final-rinse solution into the pre-bath, which I did not do. I wonder if theres a dye stabilizer in the pre-bath liquid thats needed for their process. Please see the two attached images that exhibit some issues on scanning. I've color corrected the scans as best as I can. Thank you for the links I will read the processing manuals from Kodak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Ali Shah Posted October 23, 2022 Author Premium Member Share Posted October 23, 2022 1 hour ago, Daniel D. Teoli Jr. said: Here is a discussion on it... ECN-2 Troubleshooting | Photrio.com Photography Forums Thank you, I've read this post quite a few times, however it does not appear to be the same sort of issue, their negatives don't exhibit the strange base color difference that mine do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Ali Shah Posted October 23, 2022 Author Premium Member Share Posted October 23, 2022 I should also mention that after the full process, during the final washing, the negatives seem to bleed a magenta dye, took quite a bit of washing to get it all out. This seems to occur through out last 20 rolls, I've processed so did not seem very alarming to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Sponsor Robert Houllahan Posted October 23, 2022 Site Sponsor Share Posted October 23, 2022 I will try to take a look at the QWD kit specs. I think because you are getting a kind of line that you might not have enough agitation happening. In ECN2 in linear processing the developer is very heavily turbulated (agitated) for consistency by big pumps and spray bars in the developer tank. We do the same in the ECN2 Fix and looking at the scans you might have some silver retention possibly from not enough agitation. ECN2 pre-bath can affect color to some small degree but it is really primarily for RemJet backing removal and then it is heavily washed in the buffer stage and then there is an air knife to minimize chemical carry-over to the developer. I do not think prebath has anything to do with dye stabilization in the ECN2 process. Overall I would try allot more agitation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Ali Shah Posted October 24, 2022 Author Premium Member Share Posted October 24, 2022 HI, I will try agitating with more vigor. I don't think its a silver retention issue- as I went through a second bleach/fix cycle with these negatives and there was no discernible change. I believe this is the process to follow to remediate silver retention. Is that correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Sponsor Robert Houllahan Posted October 24, 2022 Site Sponsor Share Posted October 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Ali Shah said: HI, I will try agitating with more vigor. I don't think its a silver retention issue- as I went through a second bleach/fix cycle with these negatives and there was no discernible change. I believe this is the process to follow to remediate silver retention. Is that correct? Yes you can re run through the bleach and fixer to wash more retained silver out. I am pretty sure that works (not something a lab really gets a request for) so I will ask someone I know who is older and wiser to confirm. Are you processing in something like a Jobo tank? Maybe try flipping the tank over over a few times a minute on the rotator ? Just to shake it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Ali Shah Posted October 24, 2022 Author Premium Member Share Posted October 24, 2022 Yep, I'm processing in a Jobo tank. going to do another run this week, will try and invert the tank in between the agitation. Appreciate your help and also appreciate you asking your colleague. The film base color being off os worrisome as it's so consistent between all rolls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Sponsor Robert Houllahan Posted October 24, 2022 Site Sponsor Share Posted October 24, 2022 Looking at the QWD kit I see it is all powdered and with Kodak ECN2 the developer is multi part and there are very specific steps to mix it to make the working solution, so I am not sure how QWD works if it is a single pack of powder for the developer. I see you are in Boston if you want to come to the lab we can probably give you some actual kit mixed ECN2 liquids to try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Ali Shah Posted October 24, 2022 Author Premium Member Share Posted October 24, 2022 Yep so the QWD kit is a single sachet that you mix into water. It's possible I didn't mix it well in water. The first batch I whipped up, I definitely saw little crystals at the bottom of the bottle as i was pouring in the chemicals. They eventually dissolved. But those initial rolls, allay exhibited blue streaks at the bottom of the negatives (similar to the second scan i posted). Back then I was using inversion- This prompted a switch to rotary and the problem went away, until I remixed this batch and now it's back (along with this green tinted base) Would lovvvve to come and check out your lab and see how things are done! I'll shoot you a message in the AM, thanks! That's very generous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Sponsor Robert Houllahan Posted October 24, 2022 Site Sponsor Share Posted October 24, 2022 I looked at the QWD pdfs and there is a spec for Developer A and Developer B in the MSDS on that but I did not see any mixing instructions, it could very well be a mixing issue causing this. yeah send me a message come visit the lab. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Dunn Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, Robert Houllahan said: I see you are in Boston if you want to come to the lab we can probably give you some actual kit mixed ECN2 liquids to try. Good on you. What a generous offer. One of the reasons this forum has such a good reputation. Posts are one thing but practical help like this is something else. No need to look up the definition of "professional" here. Edited October 24, 2022 by Mark Dunn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pablo Cruz Villalba Posted November 5, 2022 Share Posted November 5, 2022 (edited) I've never used QWD but I've had a similar problem before. I mix my own ecn2. When it happened I figured out that I needed to wash more after the stop bath. Try using a stop bath after developer, wash very well and then proceed. I think those stains happen when bleach meets developer. Edited November 5, 2022 by Pablo Cruz Villalba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Sponsor Robert Houllahan Posted November 5, 2022 Site Sponsor Share Posted November 5, 2022 2 hours ago, Pablo Cruz Villalba said: I've never used QWD but I've had a similar problem before. I mix my own ecn2. When it happened I figured out that I needed to wash more after the stop bath. Try using a stop bath after developer, wash very well and then proceed. I think those stains happen when bleach meets developer. In machine ECN2 processing there are air knifes (or squeegees) between each tank to control chemical mixing so for hand processing allot more wash between steps is definitely great advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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