A. Whitehouse

Sometimes I suspect people forget to quote deck time and stock costs in their transfer estimates on these boards. And with HD-CAM SR tapes running at several hundred dollars, at-least here in Australia anyway, it can be a significant hit. Do some of these, or all of these, US rates include deck and stock? Because generally that is included here, so the rate comes way down for digibeta and so forth. I wish there were direct to drive options here, it would be much easier on so many levels for a lot of the projects I'm involved with as even digibeta can become a real headache, let alone HD CAM SR or D5. I think there are maybe two or three of these decks in Melbourne.

Can I suggest one of the new laser distance finders is an excellent addition to a kit and relatively inexpensive. Not to replace the other measures but really useful for check distances quickly. And chalk...

So you will get to benefit from the experiences of Red users who are out in the field and possibly out in the cold. Is it possible that you will change your work flow and or purchases based on these experiences rather than the speculation on an internet forum, for a product which hasn't seen the light of day and wont until RED #1 rolls of the production line and has been used to shoot a production which goes through a full post production pathway? The HVX was discussed and examples given in a similar way and this did nothing to help the vanguard of productions who found themselves up poop creek. Im surprised that someone who describes themselves as a "tech" guy would be so brash as to claim that you will be able to work with and cost out anything they feed you. Maybe another "tech" guy can help me out here and help point out some of the holes in the workflow (which doesn't actually exist yet). I think that endlessly answering peoples doubts about this product on this forum (which is full of real world skeptics, cynicism built from real world experiences overtime) with speculation is rash. This might be misconstrued as fact by casual readers or first time posters when very few real facts are known. The price was unknown until recently (and was admittedly surprisingly cheap) and yet I can remember very firm arguments from posters about what the package would include for their $17,500. I agree with some of your points Chris, I think that the RED will be used for low budget work using gear which is less than ideal (like still lenses) because I went through similar struggles and trials by fire in the past on low budget shoots with gear like the HVX and the P + S and in particular the A-Minima. In a certain frame of mind you do what ever it takes to get something made but don't shoot the messenger. Most of the points made in this forum are entirely legitimate, as a working camera asst (or jack of all trades) and DP I do not look forward to shooting with Nikons wide open on the types of projects I work on becuase it will be every bit as difficult as the experienced cameramen on this site have described. And having watched some of the fatal problems experienced by early HVX adopters I shudder at the tears which will be spilled despite all the talk from RED engineers a month before its release. I face a production in a couple of months with Nikons on the front of a HVX with the Redrock adapter. I had to be very straight up with the director about the limitations of the system and had to push to get a HD split to judge focus. This was based on experience with the system in the past, something I would not care to repeat. I guess Ive written such a long post because I feel so close to the market which this camera has been pitched at endlessly and friends and I have felt burnt in the past by similar speculation (which often turns to fact when standing in a rental house). I appreciate the questions and points made by the experienced members of this site and like them I hope that this camera is everything the hype would have me believe, but I have my doubts. And even after NAB 99% of my questions wont be answered except perhaps that the camera isn't vaporware and that it might not be as akward to work with as the pictures would have me believe. Finally, perhaps someone can help answer this question, will the RED be able to shoot using the full sensor, aka 35mm depth of field, but down rez it to 720p or 1080p for storage and post reasons without using some sort of REDCODE propriety codec in 4:4:4? Similarly what is the maximum resolution I can expect to put down to the hard drive when using S16mm PL mount lenses ( I understand that it will not use the full sensor) and what codecs will I be able to work in camera with (in particular will I be able to work in DVCpro HD)? Can these questions be answered with out experimentation with a real unit? I dont know. My 10 or 20 cents, Sasha

[quote name='Chris Kenny' date='Mar 17 2007, 10:50 AM' post='161126' It's helpful to talk about all of these things before cameras start shipping so people can figure out what to buy, what to learn, how much money they'll need to spend, etc. How can these issues be discussed substantively when no one has any experience with the gear. It's exactly this type of speculation which leads people to buy gear they don't need and don't know how to use. How can anyone offer any insight into whether they should purchase the EVF or LCD when no one has seen or used these products. As far as work flow, has anyone outside the company taken this product through a full pathway? Im not trying to rag on anyone, I can understand excitement, but is there any reason to believe that there wont be similar issues to the ones faced by HVX users (I'm in a PAL territory) for the first 4 months? I respectfully disagree that anything substantive can be discussed without a single hand or eye touching the equipment.

Those all seem to be questions that would be better answered when the product is released not when no one participating in the forum is going to be able to give real hands on advice. Unless the discussion is between the engineers and Jim Jannard? When people ask for solid specs they don't mean speculation. Jay appears to have entered this forum, accuse everyone of acting like children and then been upset when people reacted. Of his four posts or so he didn't offer a piece of relevant information or insight, beyond his opinion of the attitudes of the members of this forum. What did he expect?

The films are Mack Dawg productions and they are all filmes on S16mm. I agree I think they look great, all of the TB series. Sasha

I think he might be trying to ask whether because of the primes speed whether you notice a significant increase (or loss) of DOF when shooting wide open over the slower zooms. And whether it compares to 35mm or whether it is still too deep? Sasha

Early in Stanley Kubrick's career he was very much an A-list hollywood director, who married one of his stars and no doubt partied in LA, it was after all the 60's. I think while there are obviously differences between them I am surprised that you would choose these two directors who I think have far more in common than other younger directors I can think of. Especially if you consider their ability to use bleeding edge technology to create their films and that they both started as photographers and cameramen. I don't think kubrick or fincher make popcorn movies at all and I don't think fincher makes "fast food for our minds" Also Kubrick was very interested in the darker side of the human mind, look at jack in the shining or humbert in Lolita or any character in Full Metal Jacket bar the photographer. On top of that he was a very successful box office director which is why warner brothers poured 10s of millions of dollars into his films. He was very aware of his audience which is also why he had so much control over the marketing of his films. As far as finchers films being about the here and now, well one thing I really like about his films is that they may seem to be set in the here and now (except alien 3) but they are fully realized new worlds, quiet unlike "reality" or what we see around us. I hardly think there is a fight in the minds of young directors to go down these two "divergent" paths. There must be a better example or analogy.

Wasn't Ran produced by George Lucas? Sasha

Yeah, I know what you mean in terms of brazil. Does it remind anyone else of the Orson Welles film "The Trial" Which even though its black and white has performance and direction similarities. I imagine a lot of that facist architecture is still around in Italy. I just wish more women like Dominique Swan still turned up in films. Pretty interesting learning experience, dutch angles, POV, Zooms, handheld. I hope one of the lessons learnt was to tape your gels down properly to the edge of the window so they don't flap. Always made me giggle while I watched it but only because I knew exactly what it was. Its in my online dvd list now aswell. Sasha

Has Jim Murdoch returned? They kind of look alike. Except now Jim has found the word of god and dislikes hand-held (in a primarily hand-held film). The ten percent on sticks or steadicam must have been pretty powerful Cesar. Sasha

Hah, I already have "1900" on a 4 disc laser disc box set (double sided) so no need to buy again on dvd. It is strange to think that Gérard Depardieu was a heart throb at one time. Great cast, I forget that donald sutherland was the facist. Good role. Sasha

Has anyone seen the DVD yet? Whats it like? How's the transfer and the extras? Sasha

I would imagine that at the end of a film like king kong set at the top of the empire state building they would want to put as much of the impressive backgrounds in shot and in focus because its costing them so much to produce. Also the scale of it all would be harder to depict, or would be less impressive, because of the compacting qualities of a longer lens. I would imagine that lens choices which might seem out of the ordinary when shooting a scene would often be the influence of the director as I would tend to associate unique lensing with particular directors rater than camera people who need to be more flexible professionally. While a change of 2mm between lenses might seem minute in the grand scheme of things imagine what these pre-visuals are being used for on a picture like king kong. Multiple units shooting different elements all being handed to large post production teams in order to create the finished shot. I would think that those little changes made early on in pre-vis (a fairly perfect environment creatively) would become fairly set in stone quite quickly. How many boxes of lenses must these productions have? And does anyone have much experience with these pre vis programs? I remember there are good examples of the exactness of previs on the fight club dvd where they are compared side to side with the final version. Also on the digital domain home page. www.digitaldomain.com Sasha

I have seen similar effects from working on a vialta where scrubbing through the footage creates very similar effects but not as controlled. I thought that type of thing was done in flame though someone recently posted a Claudio Miranda shot ad which had similar horizontal streaking. That was camera filtration. Sasha

Why did you quote me? Im not part of any revolution, Im not power tripping in the least...

Maybe they will become more apparent when the posters on Reduser.net become red users. What do they talk about? With the price of storage coming down so quickly its amazing how much more competitive than tape its becoming. If only festivals would screen from portable drives...

As others have suggested use of blacks but may I also suggest pulling the performers away from the walls and if you use additional lighting then using them close and controlled. Also for your practicals look into getting the bulbs with a reflective opaque top as this will prevent light shooting out of the top of your lamps or fixtures. They are a bit more expesive but I have always found them very useful. I hope this helps... Sasha

In my experience Jamie there is little point in renting quality glass with the HVX/35mm combination because the optics in the system drag the quality down to a point where money is better spent elsewhere. I think you could get away with shooting Zeiss standards or if you need that extra stop (and once you pay for the lenses and adapter you are inevitably looking for that short focus look) super speeds. In my experience stopping down just brings the spinning filter into focus and it becomes unusable. Im sure if you wanted to use quality primes there would be lens supports available, I assisted on a film last year where it was shot Digibeta with the P + S pro 35mm adapter and a Angenieux (spell) zoom that weighed as much as the camera body. The lens bent the carbon fiber rails. The real problem was the way it put pressure on the adapter, constanly pushing it up slightly. All up the total length of the camera was over 5 feet with all the bells on. Im sure there are lens supports and that a good rental house would be able to stitch something together although I doubt you would be able to use the P + S rods. A big issue with the system is its incompatibility with most accessories and Im forever stitching different kits together to make something work. A little off topic but I strongly suggest getting a on board monitor with your package. I hope this helps... Sasha

I agree with you Mike but I felt the style of the film and its story very conflicting. Something about the punchy colours and constant use of the sun as a back light plus a very modern contrasty look put me in a weird space that distanced me from the story; which I thought was struggling to be either a political intrigue film ie: constant gardener; or an adventure film ie: Indiana Jones. Both could have been good but I have trouble with trying to mix them together. Did anyone else feel this way? I think it was beautiful but out of place, It was the contrast and colour that bothered me. I don't think the story was up to much. I agree with you max, the coverage of the action was fairly predictable. Like an episode of "A-team". Modern American films often seem to struggle with POV these days. Whether a scene is going to be covered from a subjective or objective perspective, constantly cutting between the two. I guess a lot of it is learning the fine art of the cinematic set piece but you would think that at that level of production it could be a bit more interesting. I thought the performances were pretty good but way to much dialog and exposition. I find it hard to believe that Africans sit around constantly discussing the current state of Africa with one another but I think that these heart felt perspectives go down well with some people in the audience who might want be feel informed about African politics and society. Very heavy handed in my opinion. It was shot Anamorphic? I saw it in such a crap cinema I couldn't spot whether it was a S35 crop. Didnt look soft or grainy in that environment. You guys should see it in less exacting cinemas and a lot of the technical limitations become moot. Was it all shot in Africa? I did have a good time but Im not going to think about or remember "Blood Diamond" for a very long time. Sasha

Maybe its a little off topic but there are an incredible number of films with similar plots titled "toy soldiers". They dont all seem to be on IMDB but it used to be a running joke with my friends. Always a military school undersiege...

I dont know if it helps but I shot a R16mm film using 35mm anamorphics earlier this year and was surprisingly pleased with the results. But as it has been pointed out the negative area is similar to cropping S16mm and we were doing a video finish. As far as blow up I have seen cropped R16mm 2k scanned blowups to anamorphic prints and its amazingly grainy (admittedly that was the nature of the projects style ) but I have also seen incredible stuff 1:2.35 from S16mm. There are not that many (in my experience and admittedly Australia has all of zero anamorphic lenses onshore bar the ones I used I think) PL or bayonet mount anamorphics out there but people in anamorphic friendly territories might know better than me. If you can find a R16mm Arri out there (or aaton!) then it could yield a good result. Hope this helps... Sasha

As I understand it this film is being produced by jackson and directed by a long time collaborator. The war movie that jackson has been rumoured to have in development has always been suspected to be based on New Zealanders experiences in Chunuck Bair (spell?) which was a fairly important experience for kiwi soldiers at gallipoli. Peter Jackson is a huge collector of WW1 artifacts. Sasha

As far as HD formats for festivals and screenings is concerned it is my experience that very few (even large) festivals will screen any HD formats. Your best bet is Beta SP and Digi Beta. While Im sure this is going to change overtime it has been my experience that these are not services that most festivals offer, you'd have a better shot, ironically, with a 16mm print. While American festivals are slowing picking up some formats like HD CAM (Ive seen some offer HDV options) Europe still mostly require Beta SP and Digi Beta. In fact most large festivals still require 35mm prints but these are your big market fests like Cannes or Montreal. Have you considered a SD offline on your macbook with a HD online conform? Good luck with your short. Sasha

If I remember classics properly their was an emphasis in Spartan society on hairless bodies plus strict dietary and exercise regimes. Bred for war, the women too. The Spartans, it also turns out, were actually english... Sasha