Pavan Deep

Typically for an hour long television documentary how much film would they have carried? Pav

I keep hearing that documentaries can only be shot on digital. Currently BBC 2 HD have been showing two documentary series; Brazil with Michael Palin from 2012 and the Himalayas with Michael Palin from 2004. The Brazil one has been digitally shot, but the Himalaya one was shot on Super 16. This shoot must have been very complex, the photography is excellent. The Brazil show looks great too, but the photographic look between both shows is very different. I am not sure of the Himalaya one’s productions workflow, I guess all the 16mm negative was telecined to standard definition video, it seems as if the BBC are showing it from standard definition, but despite this it looks amazing next to the digital show.. Pav

I agree that using 16mm is much cheaper now than it was a few years ago; I have also experienced a different and better attitude towards hobbyists from labs, in the past it seemed they only wanted to know if you had lots of films to process. I think that in the UK Frame 24 is the best place to get film from, just checked their prices and it’s £38.40 for 100ft spool and £108.00 for 400ft, I don't think there is anywhere that’s cheaper, their processing and scanning packages are great value too. I do think splitting a 400ft roll into four daylight spools is the cheapest route as you can save around £45.60, I don't think such an amount is peanuts, anything saved is worth it. I always split film myself, it’s petty easy to do just in the dark even without any major tools, I have built a daylight loader/spooler to make the job easier. Pav

As well as using modern professional sync Super 16 camera I have been using a lot of Vintage cameras. Here's some tests I did with a Keystone camera, the results are pretty impressive; Pav

My workshops are always about film in the present tense. I have just finished teaching a 16mm program; it was very successful, I find that more young people than ever before want to use 16mm. The question that I am being asked [by students] more than ever is ‘what camera they should get’ and as ever I find myself a bit stumped as to which one/s I should recommend. In the photo the students are using a Super 16 Éclair ACL 2 with a Canon DSLR battery attached to the magazine. Pav

I have experience of working with both cameras. The Scoopic is a great fun camera, incredibly easy to load, but mine was noisy and not crystal sync. I bought my ACL2 from a forum member and am very happy with it. It is very different from the Scoopic, much better, it is more compact, it’s quieter and is crystal sync. It has the most versatile lens mount and with adapters I can use virtually any lens including PL lenses. Pav

I am pretty sure the Keystone Executive K51 16mm has a c mount, just try and unscrew it might be a bit tough, especially if no one has ever taken it off. For the magazines you could find out more here www.toeppenfilm.com . What lens does it have? Some lenses like my Cineraptor don't need focusing as long as the subjects about 1 metre away. Pav

Personally I think Eclair cameras are great. Thanks in that picture it's the Ikonoskop Kinoptik 9mm c-mount. Pav

My set up, it has taken me almost two years to put together. It’s an Éclair ACL 2 which has been modified to Super 16, I have some 200ft magazines for it, they haven’t been modified to Super 16, the guy that serviced the camera told me that I didn’t need them converting, they don’t scratch film. I have used a viewfinder from an old CP-16 and have the Eclair ergonomic handle for it, I have built an on board battery by using a Canon 12 volt NC –E2.. The camera's small, quiet running and makes great movies. Pav

I agree looking at cameras is far more interesting as for the debate, it used to be video might kill film and that went on for over 20 years, but film is still here. All artist needs as many tool available. Pav

I have similar techniques used on Eyemos; http://eyemorexfinder.webs.com/2perfreflexeyemo.htm Pav

With Super 8 cameras some simpler camera seem to run with two batteries or 3 volts, most silent cameras with a zoom seem to run on 6 volts and most sound models seem run on 9 volts. With 16mm cameras it seems that 12 volt is standard on most [not all] 16mm cameras, but why is 12 volt power popular on most 16mm cameras? Is there a technical reason why lower voltages like 6 volts or 10 volts weren't used? Thanks Pav

Yes the APS C sensor is bigger, iit's my fault I am looking at MFT lenses, it seems that MFT is only slightly bigger than Super 16. Are the Samsayng lens good? Pav

Thanks, I might have this wrong, but wouldn’t the MFT lens need to sit about 1.73mm in front of the C mount? If the image produced is similar to 3 perf 35mm then wouldn’t a 12mm MFT lens be similar to a 25mm lens on Super 16? Pav

Can I use a Micro Four Thirds lens on a C mount camera? Are there adapters out there? There seem to be quite a few adapters allowing users to use C mount lenses on their MFT's cameras but not the other way around. How much bigger is the APS-C sensor than Super 16? What focal lenght will a 12mm MFT lens give me on Super 16? Thanks Pav

I am getting a Pathe Webo BTL 16mm camera, I have no idea yet if it works, or if the exposure system works and whether the pellicle is broken. Does anybody know how to take this camera apart? Thanks Pav

I have never seen this before either, I suspect it uses the 200ft spools like the Beaulieu R16, it's the same as the 100ft daylight spools only bigger. Pav

Some great responses here, I just wanted to add that maybe it would be a good idea to ask people locally as there might be someone willing to lend the gear. A great camera is the Éclair ACL that shouldn't be over looked, there are plenty of them about, they are smaller with the 200ft magazine and have much more lens choices. An important point raised here about prices of gear, I have noticed that prices of cameras are slowly going up and good deals are becoming harder to find. I think this could be because there is a renewed interest in analogue film. It's now easier to get services where you buy film, get it processed and scanned. Pav

If filming with a pro 16mm camera is not essential then why look at Aatons or Arris? If it's about fulfilling a requirement think simple; Why don't you get a cheap 16mm camera? There's plenty for sale online like a Bell and Howell 240 or 627, these are around £30.00-100.00 and take 100ft daylight spools these are about £36.00, the 100ft will last 2.30 seconds at 24fps and processing and scanning will cost you about £55.00, so camera, film processing and scanning will cost you less than £150.00, all you have to do is just shoot something random. Pav

Buying any 'old' Super 8 camera is a risk from anywhere, nobody can really offer a guarantee as most Super 8 cameras are over 30 years old, you can't expect a guarantee, parts are rarely available, very few people will fix these cameras and repairs often cost more than the value of the camera. Pav

An interesting yet perturbing post, I would like to pick up on a few things; firstly, I do not agree that ‘Directing is the same, no matter the medium’, Maybe you need to research this more. Why do you think it would be expensive to shoot on 16mm film? It seems to be common for people to assume that 16mm is too expensive, yet few explore the real costs. While no one says that film is cheap, it doesn't have to be prohibitively expensive either. If it is an essential requirement for this film school to demonstrate that you’ve made something on film then by making something on digital and passing it off as film is deceitful and immoral. When they say something has to be made on film; Have they asked for a print? Or are they saying the material has to be 'acquired' on film regardless of what it’s finished in? The reason I ask is most film 'acquired' material is finished and shown digitally. If they’ve asked for 16mm why don’t you borrow or get a cheap 16mm camera from Ebay and just shoot a 100ft roll, get it scanned and edit it, it will cost you very little, under £100 and this way you can demonstrate that you've made something on film and you’re not being dishonest. Have a look locally, online and at www.analoguefilmacademy.co.uk and see for yourself that shooting on film will be very rewarding and you'll be glad for shooting film, it's not just an effect. Pav

Personally I love the Arri S, it is an ideal small 16mm camera that can be upgraded to Super 16. I think the Arri S looks very similar to Pathe Webo 16, which in turn looks a lot like the Kodak model E, I think the Kodak camera was built in the 1930's and is quite basic, the Pathe 16 was built in the 1940s and has an interesting reflex system. I believe the Arri S was built in the 1950s, with a true reflex viewfinder and better build quality as the camera was aimed at professionals. Pav

Just to clarify, this is not my video, I found it online, I agree with most of what's been said, though I am not so sure about the figures, especially here in the UK. I know that these days it's pretty easy to borrow an S16 camera and it can cheaper to buy a camera rather than rent, Super 16 lenses are cheaper to rent than those for cameras such as the Arri Alexa. The costs are really dependent on how much you shoot, naturally if you have more shot footage there will be more film to process and scan. Pav

This is an excellent short video about 16mm. Pav

Great work. How did you draw the lines? Pav