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XDCAM EX

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Can any of you guys confirm if the vignette problems I've been hearing about are true? I've read on a few forums that between 10mm and 25mm on the lens that some cameras are experiencing mild vignetting in the upper left and upper right corners. Thanks.

 

Apparently this was true on very early pre-production models but it has since been fixed and Sony is fixing models that have this problem.

 

love

 

Freya

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This camera is generating a LOT of excitement and intrest, at least over here in the U.K.

A lot of people seem more intrested in this than the HVX2000. I guess this is partly because the HVX is a bit crippled resolution wise.

 

I'm excited by that Fujinon lens, as I like Fuji lenses generally.

 

The big bugbear for me is of course those memory cards.

Yes you can copy them off onto other things, but I know from my experience with DV tapes, how long it takes me to get about to importing them, and often I've needed to use the camera again in between.

Heres where the EX1 scores over the HVX again as apparently the cards import much faster to the computer as their interface is based on more modern technology.

 

I like Panasonic cameras, but on paper at least, this is looking a lot nicer than the HVX.

 

I'm actually waiting to hear more about Panasonics new DVX replacement (NAB) as that is supposed to use normal compact flash cards. That would be a big advantage in terms of cheap recording but Panasonic definitely need to get the data rate up on that dubious codec and really need to address the resolution issues they are having. For me the ideal in this context would have been a HDV based HVX but the boat has gone now.

 

I'm really having a problem finding high definition cameras I like so far. Theres a HVX that is fairly accessible up here and I've thought about using that and shooting to DV! Maybe I need to check out the

Sony Z1. *shrug*

 

love

 

Freya

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There seems to be the odd EX1 that needs its back focus readjusted. However, it seems to be a procedure that you can carry out yourself easily enough. It's something you have to do on the interchangeable manual zooms, but not usual on the fixed lensed cameras.

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The pricing per gig is similar for both the SxS and P2 cards (around ~$900 for 16GB cards), however the record times are vastly different. The 16GB SxS card will give you 50 minutes at 1080/60i while the 16GB P2 card will give you 16 min at 1080/60i (or 40 min at 720/24p).

 

I found a couple of good charts comparing recording times for each card using various formats and sized cards at TapeStockOnline:

 

http://www.tapestockonline.com/sxspromecavs.html

 

 

Boyd

You're leaving out *why* the recording times are so different. The SxS is 4:2:0 compression vs the P2's 4:2:2, so of course it will have a longer runtime, but a lower quality storage. The world of trade-offs.

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Add to it, after using the EX on the feature I was assisting with last week, that lens on it is flat, incredibly flat!

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Hiro Narita shot some pick ups for "Mission Street Rhapsody" with the EX1, and supposedly it matched up really well with their F950 (I think it was F950) footage.

Edited by Jonathan Bowerbank

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I used a pair of EX-1's at Harvard a while ago and a HVX the other day for a music Video (mixed with 35mm and Super8) overall if I had to choose between buying one or another I would probably take the Sony for the 1/2" real 1080x1920 chipset and overall better ergonomics. I think both camera's lenses are lacking one way or another, but maybe that is just the case with any permanently attached lens. I found the P2 or SxS cards to be easy to use and fast to import into FCP or Avid from there it's not much different than editing any compressed hd format (HDV DvcProHD or Xdcam) and of course there is no original media issue. Also with the Sony you could record the 1080x1920 SDI out...

 

 

-Rob-

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Sorry for the delay - have been crazy busy and long offline.

 

The HVX-200 was part of the DuArt demo I saw, and to my eyes it was consistent with other tests I've seen: resolution and detail was very noticeably less than the EX1, but it has a bit of an edge in terms of color rendition, as would be expected. Having shot with the EX1 now for a few months, I can say that the color space is my main objection. I haven't done finishing work with any of the footage yet, but I'm hoping I can transcode into a 4:4:4 color space and tweak the colors to where I want them. Am also not wild about the look of the shutter - any movement very often feels stuttery, but I haven't been able to nail this down with thorough testing yet. The other thing I'd warn shooters about is that trusting your histogram in my experience leads to consistently overexposed images, but I need to re-read the manual in case there's something funky about the way Sony is using it that I just need to adjust to. I'm still experimenting with picture profile settings, but overall I'd have to say that between the lens and the gamma curve, the contrast is on the flat side, which to me is good news - the latitude is huge - but you can't walk out the door and shoot defaults and expect to love it. On a narrative, that's never going to be an issue, but on rapid fire doc shooting, I end shooting it flat, avoiding overexposure and tweaking the look in post.

 

Long story short, I would never buy an HVX-200 over the EX1, and I don't know of anything that can touch what the EX1 can do for the money (today anyway), but I was vehemently against the nature of the chip and the upsampling in the HVX from the beginning. There just wasn't any other viable, affordable HD option in the past.

 

And yes, the EX1 held up against the Red beautifully, which was surprising, but they're completely different animals. I couldn't shoot a verité doc with a Red One, as much as I wish I could. The footage that blew me away was the Sony F950, even over 35mm, so you still get what you pay for.

 

- Brian

 

Brian,

 

Unless it was another demo at Duart, I had heard that the HVX200 was not there. Can you confirm that it was and how did it do? The discussion I had about this demo centered on the RED and that it didn't perform well, resolution-wise, in windowed 2k mode vs. the EX-1.

 

Thanks,

 

Boyd

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I just got home from working on a commercial our "A" Camera is a Genesis, but today we brought in an EX1 as a "B" camera. We shot with the camera tethered to an SRW deck, so that we can record 10 bit 4:2:2 (At least I was told it was 10 bit, I had no time to test it and I had no idea we were even going to shoot with the camera until late last night). Everything worked great, and the camera is very easy to work with, if you've ever worked with any other CineAlta camera then you'll be pretty familiar with the menus nomenclature. I was able to match it to our Genesis in minutes (it wasn't a perfect match, but pretty damn close). I wouldn't say the camera is perfect though, recording to a $85,000 deck gets you a great picture, but when recording to the built in SxS cards the compression is noticeable, although still amazing for 35mb/s and $6500! I was so impressed I'm considering buying one myself.

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Hello Everyone...

 

Just finished shooting a corporate video with the EX-1. Nothing fancy, just inteviews and B-Roll of office workers. I found the camera great in general terms. The lens is really nice. Couldn't tweak the image too much, because it is being mixed with footage from SP's from a while ago. It's a shame as I would have liked to try a couple of things.

 

There's just one thing I did not like about the camera, and it is that it doesn't have a proper audio level reading, or at least a did not find it. It is just that small level and the bottom right corner of the lcd. The first day of shooting I had to go to the editing room to take a look at the clips inside the Final Cut to see if the levels were ok. It made me nervous for the first day. Even the one on the Z1 is far better than the EX-1.

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Hello Everyone...

 

Just finished shooting a corporate video with the EX-1. Nothing fancy, just inteviews and B-Roll of office workers. I found the camera great in general terms. The lens is really nice. Couldn't tweak the image too much, because it is being mixed with footage from SP's from a while ago. It's a shame as I would have liked to try a couple of things.

 

There's just one thing I did not like about the camera, and it is that it doesn't have a proper audio level reading, or at least a did not find it. It is just that small level and the bottom right corner of the lcd. The first day of shooting I had to go to the editing room to take a look at the clips inside the Final Cut to see if the levels were ok. It made me nervous for the first day. Even the one on the Z1 is far better than the EX-1.

 

 

Hi,

If you press "Status" just under the top handle it will show some info, then just use the thumb whelie on the back to change screens and you will find proper audio levels.

 

H

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Guest Nathan Donnelly
I just got home from working on a commercial our "A" Camera is a Genesis, but today we brought in an EX1 as a "B" camera. We shot with the camera tethered to an SRW deck, so that we can record 10 bit 4:2:2. I was able to match it to our Genesis in minutes (it wasn't a perfect match, but pretty damn close).

 

Holy freakin' God.... :blink:

 

Pardon for resurrecting a dead(-ish) thread, but as a new EX1 owner, I find this incredibly inspiring. I've come from the SD world with the Canon XL2, and the possibility to now shoot on a camera that can keep up with the Genesis is absolutely mind-blowing.

 

I've got a question on capturing in 4:2:2, but maybe that's more appropriate for a different part of the forum.

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Has anybody run into issues with broadcasters regarding the 35mb/s? I understand why the camera is appealing on an aesthetic level, but I'm concerned about whether or not the codec is okay for HD broadcast. I'm shooting something we may be purchasing a camera for, and I haven't found anything in our broadcaster's specs about this. If you have any info, please let me know!

 

Thanks in advance

 

Maya

 

Toronto, Canada

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Has anybody run into issues with broadcasters regarding the 35mb/s? I understand why the camera is appealing on an aesthetic level, but I'm concerned about whether or not the codec is okay for HD broadcast. I'm shooting something we may be purchasing a camera for, and I haven't found anything in our broadcaster's specs about this. If you have any info, please let me know!

 

Thanks in advance

 

Maya

 

Toronto, Canada

 

No experience with delivering from an EX1, but check what HD format the broadcaster will accept, you should be able to export out of your NLE to the appropriate format. Delivery on HDCAM/HDCAM SR tape is fairly common.

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Has anybody run into issues with broadcasters regarding the 35mb/s? I understand why the camera is appealing on an aesthetic level, but I'm concerned about whether or not the codec is okay for HD broadcast. I'm shooting something we may be purchasing a camera for, and I haven't found anything in our broadcaster's specs about this. If you have any info, please let me know!

 

Thanks in advance

 

Maya

 

Toronto, Canada

 

 

Hello,

 

I work for Sony and have been involved with EX development from its inception more than three years ago. The EX1 is accepted by many broadcasters such as CNN, Discovery, Nat Geo and many more. Ex is very well suited for shooting with available light because it has a very wide angle true HD lens. This lens does not exhibit ramping (does not loose a stop, or more when you zoom all the way in) and it has three 1/2 inch full raster HD CMOS sensors providing very high sensitivity, exposure latitude and signal to noise ratio. EX camcorders record full raster 1080 i/P or 720p signals into SxS cards that plug directly into new Mac or Pc for transferring data at very high speed (8GB in about 3.5 min). The 35Mbps full raster codec are supported by all major NLE (including Avid).

 

Don't be fooled by the numbers game. 4:2:2, 3:1;1, 4:1:1 and 4:2:0 have absolute meaning in SD, but NOT in HD. In SD, the luminance signal always has 720x480 pixels (for NTSC). However, many HD formats record deprecated luminance frames (the recorded frame has less pixels than the native HD signal). In these cases the sampling numbers only depict the relative ratio of color to luminance samples. So it is possible for a marketing person to call 4:2:2 a format that records 720P at 920x720 instead of 1280x720 or 1080 at 1280x1080 instead of 1920x1080. Thus, it's impossible to compare formats based on "relative" numbers. To make an accurate comparison it is necessary to define a common base, lets say that 4 will be only used to depict full raster HD frame 1920x1080 or 1280x720. In this case, Ex is 4:2:0 at both 1080 and 720 modes and the other format is 3:1.5:1.5 and 2.6:1.3:1.3 respectively. Always count the pixels!!!

 

In conclusion, not only does the EX 35Mbps codec have higher (true HD) resolution, but when capturing for editing the NLE will not need to rescale the images. No scaling artifacts!

 

I hope you find this information helpful.

 

Juan Martinez

Senior Manager, Technology

Sony Electronics Inc.

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Thank you both for your input, I'll talk to the editor and check out the camera at a rental house here in Toronto. Good to know that the codec is compatible with so many broadcasters. I'm looking forward to seeing how the EX1 performs, especially under low light, as Juan mentioned.

 

 

Take care.

 

Maya

 

Toronto, Canada

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I've now had a chance to shoot on the EX1. We shot using two cards which we down loaded and deleated as we went - counter intuitive and doesnt feel nice destroying your rushes as you go.

 

The camera was really good similar obviously to the Z1 and the pd170 before it, in handling style so if you liked these cameras this is a good natural progression.

 

The real problem I'm having (and I don't think I'm alone) is in post production although I can watch the rushes on a sony free package niether the client based in the US using mac final cut pro or I based in the uk using PC Avid can edit the material.

 

I seem to remember when we first bought our Z1 we couldn't edit in HDV for about 6 month so I'm still hopeful that this may all work one day but the camera seems lovely.

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