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Dustin Lindgren

For all the RED haters!!!

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So what you're saying is that the Epic can produce nice pictures, much like the Alexa, F35, F23, Genesis, Red MX, Phantom, F3......

 

woohoo.

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Hah! Even MORE reason to hate the RED!!! :rolleyes:

JJ:

"I have to say that we were all stunned. Shocked. So incredible. Not like RED ONE MX. Not like anything we had seen from another camera."

 

Which is pretty much the same things the Fanboys have been saying about ANY footage from ANY RED camera, from Day One, every time there was another upgrade, another software build etc. :P

 

Face it: There is a certain mentality that will unfailingly describe the the most putridly-shot footage as "Jaw-Dropping imagery", as long as it's:

A. Shot on a RED camera

B. Posted somwhere where they think Jim will read it

 

Get over it. :lol:

 

From my viewpoint, RED images have gone from generally looking like Pus, to something actually quite reasonable (Pirates of the Carribean 4), but still short of film origination.

So maybe now they have a system that will give something like Alexa/F35 image quality, but with resolution more in line with 35mm film negative. Like most of the rest of the world, I ignore the Hype and await the results. Spider-Man better be worth it.

 

This whole protracted RED saga has been far sadder than it needed to be...

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And this means what to who?

I think it means once you see the Epic, you're going to hate the RED...

 

Splitters! Wankers!

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LOL!!!! My thread title originally read, "Far all the RED haters!!!! Where you at Mr. Walters". But i erased the last sentence to see how long it would take for the biggest hater of all to reply.

 

And Keith, I'm just trying to get you riled up. I actually like and respect your post on here. I just knew you and Rhodes would chime in quickly.

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Ok so the question I have is how much post work had been done on the footage they where looking at? I mean this is a huge budget movie being made by a Hollywood studio, therefore they have the very best of everything in terms of talent and equipment.

 

What I have always liked about 35mm is that even inexperienced people working with a small budget can produce amazing looking imagery when shooting 35mm. It already has a beauty and "magic" to it that you don't need to add later.

 

I am sure the RED gear is very good quality. But can I achieve these results with my limited resources and budget and the epic camera?

 

R,

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What I have always liked about 35mm is that even inexperienced people working with a small budget can produce amazing looking imagery when shooting 35mm. It already has a beauty and "magic" to it that you don't need to add later.

R,

 

Not to mention the almost care-free nature you can have towards exposure with 35mm neg. Just deliberately overexpose by about two thirds of a stop or so and you should be fine! I like that sort of safety net. With still film photography, my preference is slide film....however when I do shoot negative, it's great not having to worry about nailing your exposures so that they are absolutely spot on all the time. Even with great care, exposure errors do happen...even with video.

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I am sure the RED gear is very good quality. But can I achieve these results with my limited resources and budget and the epic camera?

 

R,

 

Careful Richard, you're flirting with dark forces just contemplating it. From what I hear, even if you try a RED just once, you'll never want to use anything else. Like crack. For God's sake, it's "better than 65mm"!

 

You'll end up a snivelling boob on RedUser "dancing around your keyboard" every time there's an upgrade.

 

You'll start having "film is dead" parties and making movies that are entirely handheld.

 

Just say no! :P

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LOL!!!! My thread title originally read, "Far all the RED haters!!!! Where you at Mr. Walters". But i erased the last sentence to see how long it would take for the biggest hater of all to reply.

 

 

"Far all the RED haters!!!!"

Is that like: "They can all join the Far Queue". :rolleyes:

 

For your information, I hate the Red in much the same way as the average Muslim hates too much soy sauce on his Sweet and Sour Pork.

 

I can assure you, others hate the RED far, far more than my pitiful efforts. In fact, they hate it so intensely that they can't even bring themselves to post here anymore! I guess they're tired of having to clean all the spittle and bits of chipped tooth enamel out of the keyboard. Ah, that wily Mr Jannard; he certainly knows which buttons to press... B)

 

I live outside the RED universe.

In fact, I have only ever laid eyes on a RED on a single occasion, when, entirely by accident, I stumbled on a commercial shoot near my house.

 

Because one of the crew knew me, I was allowed to press the big red button and make a 10 second recording. Incredibly, for some people, that's not considered sufficient experience to make a credible judgement!

 

I don't know why; that's probably about 10 seconds longer than the average Reduser enthusiast's exposure to the same product.... :D

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I'm trying to be diplomatic whilst making a point.

 

R,

 

Yes, I know. No offense intended.

 

I was trying to be asinine. Quite successfully it seems.

 

Your point is very valid. One of the problems with the many comparative camera tests being done these days is that the amount and quality of post work done can significantly change the outcome. A "fair" test would limit each camera/format to the same post budget.

 

John Brawley's recently posted tests of relatively ungraded material showed quite clearly (I thought) how even S16mm looked far better than the RED MX stuff.

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For God's sake, it's "better than 65mm"!

 

I remember a very similar quote several years ago from an 'A' list director about an original 'pre release' Red One camera.

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I remember a very similar quote several years ago from an 'A' list director about an original 'pre release' Red One camera.

Yes, it's hard to believe this has been going on for over five years now.

 

Mind you, the Manhattan Project only took about 3½ years, and they produced two entirely different types of atom bomb, from a standing start, and both worked first time!

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Yes, I know. No offense intended.

 

Oh none taken of course. :D

 

I'm on a special list of c.com users that must be extra sensitive to the feelings of others if I make any comment regarding Red products. So I'm staying focused on being diplomatic and making logic based posts. Any Red vs film flame war will undoubtedly be attributed to me, along with the global financial collapse, melting ice caps, and 9/11. Next thing you know they'll be saying nasty things about me again on a certain website.

 

All because I asked a legitimate question about the amount of post work done on Red footage. :huh:

 

R,

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I'm on a special list of c.com users that must be extra sensitive to the feelings of others if I make any comment regarding Red products.

R,

 

Hi Richard,

 

That must be after the 'cartoon' of crossing the line, you as a sustaining member were able to delete some of your posts, money well spent IMHO!

 

Best Stephen

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Mind you, the Manhattan Project only took about 3½ years, and they produced two entirely different types of atom bomb, from a standing start, and both worked first time!

 

But when you correct for inflation, they had more money.... ;-)

 

 

 

 

-- J.S.

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Hi Richard,

 

That must be after the 'cartoon' of crossing the line, you as a sustaining member were able to delete some of your posts, money well spent IMHO!

 

Best Stephen

 

Sheesh you have a long memory. :)

 

R,

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Sheesh you have a long memory. :)

 

R,

Sadly, DVXuser apparently does not, since all references to "that f*ckstick Boddington" etc have now mysteriously been erased from the time stream :)

 

All that remains are some dead links on this forum.

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But when you correct for inflation, they had more money.... ;-)

-- J.S.

Estimated at approximately US$32 billion in today's money, although the true cost will never be known. Interestingly, they spent the equivalent of about US$65 billion on the fleet of B-29 bombers.

 

Hundreds of brand-new technologies were invented virtually overnight. In the end they had a weapon that could do the same job as a fleet of hundreds of B-29s, and could be delivered from several miles up, well out of the range of Japanese anti-aircraft fire, and far higher than their fighter aircraft could fly.

Awesome though the RED is, I don't believe it's achieved anything like an equivalent increase in Film-Making efficiency. :P

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All because I asked a legitimate question about the amount of post work done on Red footage. :huh:

 

There's a recent thread on cml listing film formats and video cameras used on specific television and cable shows. A couple of posts explain why RED's are rarely used on them. Why? Because the post workflow is a PITA to deal with if you want 1080 HD deliverables.

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There's a recent thread on cml listing film formats and video cameras used on specific television and cable shows. A couple of posts explain why RED's are rarely used on them. Why? Because the post workflow is a PITA to deal with if you want 1080 HD deliverables.

 

I wouldn't say it was a pain-in-the-a-- but it is a 2-step process (RAW-to-whatever) which is difficult for some producers who don't even like paying for a 1-step process.

 

Now for lower-budgeted television where they basically want Rec.709 gamma DTE formats used for shooting, then even suggesting, let's say, that you should shoot 10-bit S-Log on a F35 on SR tape is a hard sell, let alone shooting RAW, since neither can easily be ingested into an NLE.

 

But other than needing that transcoding step from RAW, it's not particularly hard to get 1080P video from Red photography -- a DIT could do it in the camera truck with a Red Rocket card if he had the time, and certainly a post house could do it after they did the back-ups. But obviously it's an extra step and even if it added only pennies to the overall budget compared to shooting on a DTE format, well, some producers are more than willing to fight you over pennies.

 

Now that SR tape stock is at a premium due to the crisis in Japan, suddenly an all-data workflow looks a lot more attractive to producers.

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Any Red vs film flame war will undoubtedly be attributed to me, along with the global financial collapse, melting ice caps, and 9/11. R,

AND this:

 

"Now that SR tape stock is at a premium due to the crisis in Japan, suddenly an all-data workflow looks a lot more attractive to producers."

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I'm again and again astonished how emotional the discussion about the RED goes - positiiv as negativ - all around the forums. At the end it's a box with a sensor where you can mount lenses on. Pianists don't talk as emotional about their grand piano. They practice.

 

Cheers

Thomas.

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