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Jonathan O'Neill

Production insurance

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I already have all my equipment insured for at and away from premises, plus public liability. Just wondering if it's common practice for you to get a production to cover it all under their insurance? Hired in insurance for instance

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On big jobs yes.

 

There are very few jobs that big in the UK, so it's generally necessary to have it fully insured anyway.

 

The issue is on big claims where there's any sort of no-claims-bonus or excess issue, which should of course be paid by the production. The problem is that actually getting productions to pay these fees is so difficult that really comprehensive insurance of your own is the only sensible way to go.

 

P

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I've shot a few low budget shorts recently and without questioning they just asked how much my gear was to get it covered under their insurance (www.performance-insurance.tv) That being said they generally don't, and expect me to have it.

 

So for low budget jobs either have a deal for them to pay my excess.

Try and get them to insure it.

Or get insurance with no excess?

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When I rent out my kit (which I do pretty often, actually), they MUST provide me a certificate of insurance naming my production company (who owns the equipment) as an additional insured. In addition, they have to place a deposit with me equal to the amount of the deductible on the insurance. If they don't damage it, they get the deposit back. If it's damaged, I use the deposit to pay the deductible so I'm not out any money.

 

It would be the same if I brought my equipment to a set that I was hired on as well. My production company has it's own insurance on the equipment, but it does not include damages that occurred while renting or lending the equipment.

 

In the case where the people renting don't have insurance, they can buy a 'rider' on our policy for 5% of the value of the equipment.

 

The only time this would change is on the companies own shoots, where our production-level insurance would cover it.

 

It also might be different if the case was that my primary job was a DP who rents or brings his own equipment - in which case, there is probably a special insurance that I could get that would cover the equipment no matter where it is (and I'd just factor in my cost of the insurance into my day rate)... But since I only rent and lend equipment on the side / as a courtesy, I'm not going to pay for this hypothetical insurance.

Edited by Landon D. Parks

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When I rent out my kit (which I do pretty often, actually), they MUST provide me a certificate of insurance naming my production company (who owns the equipment) as an additional insured. In addition, they have to place a deposit with me equal to the amount of the deductible on the insurance. If they don't damage it, they get the deposit back. If it's damaged, I use the deposit to pay the deductible so I'm not out any money.

 

It would be the same if I brought my equipment to a set that I was hired on as well. My production company has it's own insurance on the equipment, but it does not include damages that occurred while renting or lending the equipment.

 

In the case where the people renting don't have insurance, they can buy a 'rider' on our policy for 5% of the value of the equipment.

 

The only time this would change is on the companies own shoots, where our production-level insurance would cover it.

 

It also might be different if the case was that my primary job was a DP who rents or brings his own equipment - in which case, there is probably a special insurance that I could get that would cover the equipment no matter where it is (and I'd just factor in my cost of the insurance into my day rate)... But since I only rent and lend equipment on the side / as a courtesy, I'm not going to pay for this hypothetical insurance.

Cheers Landon,

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Do you guys use your own insurance or ask for production insurance when bringing your own gear onto jobs? Camera / lenses etc

If you already have equipment insurance and are using your own equipment, then you don't need anything else.

 

If you're letting people borrow your equipment, they will need to put your name on the documents.

 

I've been dealing with an insurance claim for two months now from equipment damage someone did on a recent rental. I'm glad I got insurance!

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If you already have equipment insurance and are using your own equipment, then you don't need anything else.

 

If you're letting people borrow your equipment, they will need to put your name on the documents.

 

I've been dealing with an insurance claim for two months now from equipment damage someone did on a recent rental. I'm glad I got insurance!

Sorry to hear that Tyler. Yeah ordinarily I'd just use my insurance, it's just that a few lower budget shorts have come in that I think I'll ask to cover my excess should I need to claim, which I reckon is kinda fair

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I've shot a few low budget shorts recently and without questioning they just asked how much my gear was to get it covered

 

Crikey, then your experience of low budget shorts is wildly different to mine. I've never had gear insured on anything other than very high end stuff.

 

Actually - the only exception is stuff I produce which I always insure. But that's never been the case when I'm working for other people.

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I've shot a few low budget shorts recently and without questioning they just asked how much my gear was to get it covered under their insurance.

 

I have experienced the same with my equipment.

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Crikey, then your experience of low budget shorts is wildly different to mine. I've never had gear insured on anything other than very high end stuff.

 

Actually - the only exception is stuff I produce which I always insure. But that's never been the case when I'm working for other people.

 

Too much of a risk for me. I just cannot trust some random stranger with my gear. Often times, it may not even be their fault something happened to it. I wouldn't trust most people to hold $5,000 cash for me - so I'm not going to trust them with $5,000 of my equipment.

 

Insurance is so cheap now that if they are paying to rent my equipment ($300/day for full package), they CAN afford a couple hundred for insurance, or pay me the $250 to insure the equipment on their behalf. Often times an insurance policy is a better deal, since it covers equipment and liability, and can be had for less than $200.

 

Three times now I have had people want to rent my equipment without insurance or to buy my insurance protection... All three times it has been much cheaper to get the whole production insured through theeventhelper.com.

Edited by Landon D. Parks

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Too much of a risk for me. I just cannot trust some random stranger with my gear. Often times, it may not even be their fault something happened to it. I wouldn't trust most people to hold $5,000 cash for me - so I'm not going to trust them with $5,000 of my equipment.

 

Insurance is so cheap now that if they are paying to rent my equipment ($300/day for full package), they CAN afford a couple hundred for insurance, or pay me the $250 to insure the equipment on their behalf. Often times an insurance policy is a better deal, since it covers equipment and liability, and can be had for less than $200.

 

Three times now I have had people want to rent my equipment without insurance or to buy my insurance protection... All three times it has been much cheaper to get the whole production insured through theeventhelper.com.

 

If I might hijack this thread, I've been dealing with trying to find insurance for a personal project and I can't seem to find anyone to cover the production. Either I"m not using the right words, or the companies don't understand what I'm actually doing.

 

Any tips on getting general liability for a production?

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The best rates in the US that I have found are here: www.theeventhelper.com. Most productions are under $300 to insurance with a $2million policy that covers liability and property damage. Short films are even less. Plus, you don't need to wait a day or two for them to put together a quote - they give you instant quotes on their website.

 

Don't know if they work outside the US or not.

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I got a quote from Film Emporium once and was shocked at what they wanted. I have never seen anything cheaper than what The Event Helper offers for production insurance. They don't cover any shoots with stunts, so that might well prevent you from using them... But if you have no stunts, you can get a $2 million policy that covers liability and property damage for a few hundred dollars. The last quote I received from film emporium was nearly $500 for a $1 million policy.

 

I did use Film Emporium for E&O though, and they have good rates on that - or at least industry standard rates.

 

Generally speaking, when I hear the words 'used a lot in the movie business', I tend to run the other direction. That is basically a nice way of saying it's expensive.

 

Not saying don't use them, just saying there are other options that have been cheaper, at least for me.

Edited by Landon D. Parks

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US based production companies (indie or otherwise) are encouraged to contact www.Movieinsure.com for quotes and consultation.

Respect!

Dave K.

 

Dave,

 

Can you offer any insurance advice or suggestions based on what you've read in this conversation?

 

For example, if both the equipment owner and the renter (production company) have insurance, does it benefit the owner to have the equipment covered by the renter's insurance during the rental term?

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yes, both the owner and the renter need insurance for a variety of reasons

but it doesn't stop there (at the property level) - there are the liability concerns

reputable rental houses recognize that if one of their cameras is involved in an injury, they can be named in a suit

therefore they often require not only to be named as loss payee, but additional insured as well...

(some often require evidence of workers' comp...)

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I was also thinking about property loss or damage.

 

If both the owner and renter are insured for property damage then in the event of catastrophe (i.e. a camera gets submerged) wouldn't the renter/production company insurance cover the loss and then the equipment owner's property insurance rates would not be affected?

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that is correct

most "owned" floater policies either exclude coverage for "renting to others for a fee" or there is a substantial deductible (like 10k!)

if you are an owner of equipment, you must review your policy for this coverage or find out the hard way :(

having the renter provide you a certificate of insurance naming you as "loss payee" would indeed be the first policy to claim on and yes, indeed, the owners' policy would not be affected

in my many years of doing this, i have heard many many horror stories about these pitfalls for owners that rent out their gear - collecting deductibles, customers never coming back, providing fake insurance, and so forth - it can be a rough business

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by the way Tim - you really hit on a hot button issue - you used the term "submerged"

 

using cameras underwater is ok, as long as they are housed properly, however - if you rent your gear to someone, and they take it on a boat, and they do not have a "movie boat policy" the gear will NOT be covered under most policies!

 

if you do not currently have a relationship with a broker, I would gladly be that person

 

as you already know, the devil is in the details -

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