Imac Prooooooooo......

[Samuel Berger]

My monitor blew out this morning and I got my 27" Apple Cinema Display out of storage to replace it. It's really an awful choice for Windows because it goes black at random moments. I'll be getting a new monitor tomorrow and this thing will go back into storage. It's a shame this Apple product is so imperfect, I paid $1000 for it in 2012. It never worked well with my PCs.

 

I see places only that sell used 12-core Mac Pros for cheap but they don't seem to be faster than the iMac Pro.

 

I've been very busy in the last 24 hours so I don't remember why I initiated this thread, but I think I was having issues with Resolve. So far it looks like people aren't having trouble with the iMac Pro and Resolve.

 

Those 12-core 2010 Mac Pros, can you use SLI or Crossfire on them? They're $1600. Maybe a cheaper alternative to the iMac Pro, for Nuke, Adobe, FCX and Resolve.

 

Who knows, this Cinema Display might actually behave with it...I'm saving money for moving so I can't afford the iMac Pro

[George Ebersole]

*much snippage*

 

You could make a cheaper PC that gets that score, but it wouldn't run Mac OS well if at all and probably be worthless in a year or two anyway.

 

 

And that's key, because I've no desire to run any Mac software. My history with Apple is scattered and abysmal at best. Maybe they make a decent rig now, but it took them over thirty years to do so, and for my money it's still overpriced. I don't need instant or on the fly frame compiling. I make my edits, let the machine do its thing, then when it's done I hit the playback button to see what I got.

 

Like I say, if I was doing heavy graphics, and by graphics I don't mean titles, but serious CGI work, then I'd dump several thousand into a server type machine. But, I'm not down in LA, I'm just a hobbyist, and like I say, if I can get crisp digital that's 24fps looking to emulate film, then I'm happy. None of my junk will ever be projected in a theatre, and I think for guys who do corporate video it's the same thing.

 

I don't know, maybe the bar's been raised for corporate video. Even so I can't imagine any of them really wanting RED or Arri quality image for a year end sales meeting or training vid. Maybe to sell their stuff to distributors ... I can see a demand for that if the cost justifies the return, but even then you could still do it for less money with a high end PC.

 

I'll say this about Apple, and maybe things have changed and I'll add that I won't be making any friends with this comment, but when I used to shoot video down there the atmosphere was casual and juvenile. To me that reflected in their products. If they're cranking out better computers, then it's in no small realization that the serious business owner nearly always went for a PC, and still does. I think Apple's "hip" culture has woven its way into Hollywood, but with the realization that they needed to crank out some serious hardware and are still playing catchup with high priced hardware.

 

Congrats on keeping your last Mac for that long, but I'm of the opinion that you could have saved money with a PC. I still have my XP machine from 2001. I don't use it for anything serious, and certainly not for media (not high end anyway), but it does its job.

[Aapo Lettinen]

In the more than 20 years I've been using Apple's (many of them as a professional certified technician), I've had one storage/drive failure and it wasn't an Apple part, it was a 3rd party drive in my G5 that kicked the bucket on it's own with zero warning. Nothing to do with apple, nothing to do with an apple vendor, nothing but shitty luck on my part and it could have happened to anyone.

 

 

What keeps breaking?

 

Lets see... I've had two dozen apple computers easily, maybe more... I'd have to re-tally. Anyway, I've had ONE machine failure and it was my fault, my laptop was doing a rendering job and the vents were blocked and it cooked itself. Apple fixed it for $310 USD and the drive was fine. Most of the time when I saw broken machines at my shops, it was mostly the customers fault like software issues and/or dropping the machine.

 

 

Eh? Ebay has great deals on apple parts. Never had a problem sourcing parts. My CPU's were bought on ebay, my graphics card was bought on ebay, my memory, drives, even the computer, all used online. So IDK what the big deal is. YES you can't swap out the GPU on most of Apple's computers, but Apple does make computers you can and I own one. So when people complain about not being able to swap out the GPU's I just point to my computer and they sometimes still don't get it. You don't need the latest and greatest to get excellent performance.

 

 

The trashcan's were no better than what they replaced and they lack all the support that's necessary for growth. So they're great for carrying around but they suck for anything else. Apple admitted making a huge mitake with them and the next Mac Pro will be a real computer again.

 

BTW the iMac Pro is upgradable outside of the GPU. So if you order the high end GPU config, you can very easily put in a faster proc when Intel releases them to the public, which they haven't yet. The machine has 4 memory slots, 2 storage slots and 1 CPU socket, all upgradable.

 

mostly the hard drives are breaking (3 hard drive failures total on my 2011 imac. every about 2.5 years the hard drive dies and needs to be changed. Additionally couple of broken laptop hdd's and one broken hdd on 2014 imac. ) . Other problems too: continuous reliability problems with Thunderbolt ports, probably firmware/chipset related stuff, which the service center have not been able to repair. Also the 2014 imac had the hinge spring broken after just two days of normal use so that the display did not stay on level and it had to be sent to service...

 

And there is that thing which may be a intentionally designed feature but is super annoying and is present in most of the imacs and newer cinema displays we have: the freaking stand (the L shaped metal "leg" under the imac or display which supports it) is slightly bent sideways so that the display is not perfectly horizontal but slightly off level, always :blink: I don't know if it's a feature or a manufacturing fault but as said super annoying and completely unnecessary :angry:

 

--

Yes they DID make good machines back then. Even the laptops were good and handy even if a little bulky because of the dvd drive.

This later hipster stuff is more of a made for decoration and photographer use and may not be the best option for serious work though the osx is the main reason these things are used anyway, not the hardware :rolleyes:

[George Ebersole]

P.S. my current configuration gets roughly 21k on the geek bench table. I tend not to follow benchmarks for anything, even gaming unless I'm building a new system. I think at some point you have to ask yourself if your final product necessitates an extremely high end machine, or will the software be able to compile all the hidden data that you didn't use during editing, and display it in the final edit. Because when it comes to showtime to the client or audience, that's when image quality matters.

[Tyler Purcell]

I see places only that sell used 12-core Mac Pros for cheap but they don't seem to be faster than the iMac Pro.

The iMac pro is the fastest Mac ever made, it's 2X faster than ANYTHING else they've ever made actually. So no, the 2012 Mac Pro doesn't even get close. Geekbench on the new iMac pro with a decent config is like 42,000 where my machine is closer to 24,000, so that's a big difference. I mean, if I had $6k to play with for a computer, I'd buy an Intel server based double proc motherboard and pay someone to build it for me. I think it would cost around $6k - $8k depending on features.

 

Those 12-core 2010 Mac Pros, can you use SLI or Crossfire on them? They're $1600. Maybe a cheaper alternative to the iMac Pro, for Nuke, Adobe, FCX and Resolve.

You can run 2 graphics cards for DaVinci no problem. You just gotta modify the output from the power supply to support it, really easy. You do lose 3 drive slots if you add another card, so single cards are the way to roll in the 5,1 Mac Pro's.

[Tyler Purcell]

And that's key, because I've no desire to run any Mac software. My history with Apple is scattered and abysmal at best. Maybe they make a decent rig now, but it took them over thirty years to do so, and for my money it's still overpriced. I don't need instant or on the fly frame compiling. I make my edits, let the machine do its thing, then when it's done I hit the playback button to see what I got.

I refuse to use anything related to Microsoft. I don't want to own a computer that thousands of people in Russia and China are constantly trying to crack into. That anything you click on could be a virus or malware or spyware. Frankly, I also don't like fixing windows because when it breaks, it usually means reinstall, which is a rarity on Mac OS.

 

I don't understand what the issues are with the pricing. Nobody in their right mind would walk into an apple store and buy a brand new computer, that's financial suicide! Apple has a fantastic online refurb store with "new" computers for between 15 - 30% off. I usually wait until it hits 30% off and then nab something, so with CA tax and shipping, it's close to 18% off sticker. Now if you're like me and don't really care about new vs used, craigslist is your friend. Most of my computers have been used models, where you're buying a $2500 machine for $750 - $900?

 

So yes... if you're going to the apple store and looking at pricing, it's a lot... but that's not the only way to buy an apple computer.

[Tyler Purcell]

mostly the hard drives are breaking (3 hard drive failures total on my 2011 imac.

Yep, the 2011 iMac.. ONE COMPUTER had an issue with overheating. It would blow up GPU's AND kill hard drives. That model didn't change until they dumped the optical drive, which I think was 2015. So if you had problems, that could be the reason why.

 

It's an easy fix tho, there is a free fan utility you can install that allows you to turn the fans up to allow better cooling along the hard drive channel within the machine, which is right center behind the monitor. Apple stores have been recommending that update to people for years.

 

Also, ya can't mount a hard drive upside down and on it's side and expect it to last very long, the bearings just fail after a year or two.

 

Additionally couple of broken laptop hdd's

Well, if you close the top and don't let it sleep before carrying it, you are gonna have failed drives. I beat the living poop out of my laptops, they look like they fell off a car and were picked up by a trashman before I found it again. Yet, I've had no problems in 20 yeears. So there is clearly an "order of operations" I'm doing right that you may not have been? EH?

 

Other problems too: continuous reliability problems with Thunderbolt ports, probably firmware/chipset related stuff, which the service center have not been able to repair. Also the 2014 imac had the hinge spring broken after just two days of normal use so that the display did not stay on level and it had to be sent to service...

There are some issues with 3rd party thunderbolt products. This is not an "apple" thing at all, it's down to the chipset in the converters. I've struggled with many of them as well and it's why I haven't fully adopted the technology yet.

 

Just to let ya know, those iMac hinges are super robust. I have no idea how the double spring could have failed, it doesn't make any sense. That's like buying a new car and when you go to open up the drivers side window for the first time, it just collapses into the door. poop happens sometimes... :(

 

And there is that thing which may be a intentionally designed feature but is super annoying and is present in most of the imacs and newer cinema displays we have: the freaking stand (the L shaped metal "leg" under the imac or display which supports it) is slightly bent sideways so that the display is not perfectly horizontal but slightly off level, always :blink: I don't know if it's a feature or a manufacturing fault but as said super annoying and completely unnecessary :angry:

Well, the machines don't sit on the L bracket. They sit on a piece of rubber (or on some machines plastic) that covers the L bracket bottom. Also... I find it 99.95% impossible that it's not "true" when it sits on a desk. This is Apple we're talking about and their engineering team is basically second to none when it comes to this stuff. Most likely the issue is the rubber/plastic foot bit not put into place properly from either excessive heat, or another bad luck situation. I'd love to see if you can get Dell monitor to sit flat with those horrible plastic stands, yuck!

[George Ebersole]

I refuse to use anything related to Microsoft. I don't want to own a computer that thousands of people in Russia and China are constantly trying to crack into. That anything you click on could be a virus or malware or spyware. Frankly, I also don't like fixing windows because when it breaks, it usually means reinstall, which is a rarity on Mac OS.

 

I don't understand what the issues are with the pricing. Nobody in their right mind would walk into an apple store and buy a brand new computer, that's financial suicide! Apple has a fantastic online refurb store with "new" computers for between 15 - 30% off. I usually wait until it hits 30% off and then nab something, so with CA tax and shipping, it's close to 18% off sticker. Now if you're like me and don't really care about new vs used, craigslist is your friend. Most of my computers have been used models, where you're buying a $2500 machine for $750 - $900?

 

So yes... if you're going to the apple store and looking at pricing, it's a lot... but that's not the only way to buy an apple computer.

 

 

That's interesting. I didn't know that had such a thing. Pulling another all nighter here, and browsing at their offerings I found this;

 

https://www.apple.com/shop/product/G0P88LL/A/Refurbished-Mac-Pro-27GHz-12-Core-Intel-Xeon-E5

 

Not sure I need a Xeon CPU. ... if I was doing feature work, or high end commercials, then I might splurge on one of these, depending on what the client was paying me. As it stands my i7 has 14 virtual, and 32gig.

 

An interesting page. Not sure I'll ever use it, but selling used gear is a bit of a departure from their old business model. Thanks for the heads' up.

[Tyler Purcell]

An interesting page. Not sure I'll ever use it, but selling used gear is a bit of a departure from their old business model. Thanks for the heads' up.

They've been doing it since the store opened in what, 2002 ish?

 

Basically they're returned computers that are gone through, cleaned up, put in new boxes with full warranty.

 

They use to have a whole different website for them, but a few years ago they dumped it to probably keep people from going there first to buy computers.

 

Ohh and ya don't NEED a Xeon, but if you want it to last 7 - 10 years ya do. That's the big difference here, people who spend $3k on a PC are buying a NEW machine in 3 - 5 years. But people who are spending $6-8k on a Mac Pro are keeping them A LOT longer... or at least that's the case with my machine, the 5,1 from 2012, not available for sale anymore of course.

[Mark Kenfield]

Ohh and ya don't NEED a Xeon, but if you want it to last 7 - 10 years ya do. That's the big difference here, people who spend $3k on a PC are buying a NEW machine in 3 - 5 years. But people who are spending $6-8k on a Mac Pro are keeping them A LOT longer... or at least that's the case with my machine, the 5,1 from 2012, not available for sale anymore of course.

 

I recently 'upgraded' my maxed out 2012 27" i7 iMac to a seven year old Mac Pro 5,1... but I don't think it's a fair argument to suggest that people are keeping these old machines longer, because they have a more serviceable lifespan. We're keeping them because (for various, increasingly harder to justify reasons) we're tied to Mac's OS, and there are simply no better options.

 

In my case it used to be FCPX and Prores that kept me tied to Apple, but I could honestly move on from FCPX happily for an up-to-date machine. So native Prores support remains my only real motivation to stick with Apple. But I simply have too much money tied up in Prores-based cameras, and recorders, to justify moving to workaround on a non-native platform.

[Tyler Purcell]

but I don't think it's a fair argument to suggest that people are keeping these old machines longer, because they have a more serviceable lifespan.

Most people I know who have them, aren't using them in anything like a stock config. I mean my PCI slots are full, my memory slots are full, I'm running better processors, drives and of course GPU.

 

For me, if I couldn't keep putting more modern parts in it, there would be zero reason for ownership, might as well own a trashcan at that point.

[Landon D. Parks]

I'll repeat it again: The PC 'issues' that Mac people throw out there are mostly false or over-hyped. As someone who has been building and working on PC's since he was 12 (I'm 30 now), I can say that having owned around 18 different windows-based computers in that time - and having worked on countless more - I have never seen these issues that people claim. I have only ever had a PC crash on me when a hard drive was failing - and Apple doesn't use special drivers - they can fail just as easily as a PC-based hard drive.

 

I was also a Network Admin for a short time for a company where I oversaw there call-center computers and servers... I have never had an issue server-side running Windows.

I have never experienced a part malfunction in a PC (besides hard drives), I have only done re-installs when I felt the registry was becoming bloated (my own fault for installing tons of useless programs). Every windows PC I have worked on has been brought to me due to end-of-life issues like old hardware that has just worn out. We are talking 10+ year old computers here. As an A+ and CCNP, I have worked for several companies that troubleshooted network-based windows systems for companies, and I have never experienced any vast array of 'bluescreens of death' or virus attacks.

 

I'm not saying Windows is perfect, but what I am saying is: take the word of someone who refuses to touch a Microsoft product with a grain of salt. Tyler has made it known that he hates Windows, Microsoft, etc. Which is fine, but you'll never get a fair perspective from someone like that. Apple's OSX is a fine operating system. It's stable, runs well, and thanks to Apples closed marketplace, it ensures the software that runs on it runs WELL on it. I would never turn one away from Apple computers from the gate - but I will tell you to do your own research on it.

Apple computers are expensive for what they offer. You DO pay the 'Apple tax', which can range from bad to terrible. The mere fact that Apple hasn't built a good professional computer since the old Mac Pro towers is a telling sign to avoid them. Just like they screwed up Final Cut - they have very much turned into a consumer-only company. Yes, you CAN buy a used Mac like Tyler has, but the reality is - it's still going to be expensive, Apple will not service them most of the time (Apple has a replace-over-service policy), and the hardware WILL wear out eventually - or just get so behind that it won't work with the latest technology.

 

SO, I'll stop by saying that you need to do your own independent research. Tyler has given you his opinion on Apple and OSX, I have given you mine on Windows. We both appear to be fairly well researched on our particular systems. However, just know that Windows is not the doom-and-gloom that Tyler always makes it out to be. You simply can't take the word of someone who claims to hate and never use the product to make a judgement about it.

 

And as for the retina display: it's not a color-accurate display for color-critical work. At the very least you need a Flanders for that. I also have a PV270 from BenQ that claims P3 and 10-bit, but it's not.

Edited January 19, 2018 by Landon D. Parks

[Samuel Berger]

It has just occurred to me that I really only use Resolve for applying Filmconvert since I'm not a colorist. So maybe I don't really need Resolve. I do think I need Final Cut Pro, though. Because everybody badmouths Premiere Pro.

 

Funny, the iMovie that came with my iMac in 2007 was so good that they had to cripple it so people would buy Final Cut. iMovie went from being a great editing program with a timeline and easy to understand interface, to a completely counter-intuitive piece of junk in version 7. I don't think I've ever seen as good a beginner's editing app as iMovie 6, since then.

[Aapo Lettinen]

It has just occurred to me that I really only use Resolve for applying Filmconvert since I'm not a colorist. So maybe I don't really need Resolve. I do think I need Final Cut Pro, though. Because everybody badmouths Premiere Pro.

 

Funny, the iMovie that came with my iMac in 2007 was so good that they had to cripple it so people would buy Final Cut. iMovie went from being a great editing program with a timeline and easy to understand interface, to a completely counter-intuitive piece of junk in version 7. I don't think I've ever seen as good a beginner's editing app as iMovie 6, since then.

 

I personally somewhat hate all the editing programs out there, for differing reasons... I have to use regularly FCPX, Premiere CC, Resolve14, FCP7 and every now and then Media Composer and I have also used Vegas Pro and Pinnacle Pro in the past long ago.

 

There is no good or perfect editing program, they all are more or less annoying, have stupid logic and lack necessary features. The best thing one can do is have lots of different program tools and just switch to other WHEN a project cant be completed on one of them.

Just like there is no good or perfect computers, there is just mediocre stuff which is only waiting the chance to fail you and destroy your work and the best thing you can do is to have multiple spare units readily available so that you can continue working with the backup unit WHEN the computer or camera or hdd or other gear burns down B)

 

I have had Apple computers and Windows computers crashing and having problems literally thousands of times, I don't quite understand the argument that one could work years with a piece of equipment without any problems :wacko:

Either they are not noticing any mid level problems, only the largest ones (the ones where the computer catches fire and burns the building down) and thus think the gear does never fail at all.... or just being super extremely unbelievably lucky and would be millionaires if just buying a lottery ticket once in a lifetime :lol:

[Landon D. Parks]

If you only need editing, go with Lightworks. Premiere Pro, Final Cut, Avid, are all super-bloated programs - full of tons of useless features. I have never used Final Cut, but I have used Premiere and the entire Adobe suit a lot (still use it), and haven't found any real issues with it. It's just as capable as any other. With FCP, people either love it or hate it. Since X came out, it took on an iMovie vibe - and Apple stopped supporting their pro-grade accompanying programs. For this reason, most people have switched from Final Cut to other programs - at least in my research.

And no, you really don't need to resolve unless you're coloring. Even then, Premiere has Lumetri, which can give just as good results.

Biggest problem you're likely to find in Final Cut is color though... Even if you don't do a lot of coloring - I'm wonder to what extend FCP actually has any real useful coloring tools.

Edited January 19, 2018 by Landon D. Parks

[Landon D. Parks]

I have had Apple computers and Windows computers crashing and having problems literally thousands of times, I don't quite understand the argument that one could work years with a piece of equipment without any problems :wacko:

Either they are not noticing any mid level problems, only the largest ones (the ones where the computer catches fire and burns the building down) and thus think the gear does never fail at all.... or just being super extremely unbelievably lucky and would be millionaires if just buying a lottery ticket once in a lifetime :lol:

 

I've had issues with Windows-based PC's, don't get me wrong. No piece of technology is perfect. However, I will say that the way in which computers 'stop working' or 'break' is usually the result of user error. I think this is why their PC's and Mac's are more reliable to some people, and not to others. Computers in general are subject to a lot of user error - Windows more so, since Mac 'hides' much of what you can do to tear up the computer.

 

I'm very careful when using my computers. I always run antivirus programs, never install unknown or untrusted applications, and I take care of the computer by staying proactive. You need to run HDD checks to check drive health, you need to ensure your computer maintains good airflow and is free of dust, you need to install a temperature monitor to make sure temps are putting hardware at risk. If you don't monitor these things, then you won't know of potential problems until they become REAL problems. If I know in advance that my drive is failing a checkdisk, I can replace the drive. Otherwise, I end up loosing data to a sudden hard drive failure, and then blaming Windows for allowing it to happen. If I know that my graphics card is overheating, I can fix the problem (replace the heatsink or such) before it tears up the card - or I can wait til the GPU chip becomes so hot that it malfunctions.

 

As someone who has worked on PC's, pretty much 95% of all issues I have seen have been a direct result of either user error, or user carelessness for their PC. Just like a car, it needs a checkup and tuneup every once in a while. If you don't change the oil, you're gonna blow the engine. I'm sure Mac's are subject to the same issue.

Edited January 19, 2018 by Landon D. Parks

[George Ebersole]

On hacking; I traced my information being hacked and stored in some university in China (I can't recall the name of the town nor the school), and I was outraged. It wasn't just some Asian university student, but I'm betting more PRC shenanigans for whatever reason. I've had the same thing happen from Russia and Germany, and probably other places, but in end I wound on top of things.

 

*EDIT* the most severe hacking incident I ever had was having my old phone number spoofed, and hundreds of dollars in charges being pushed on my account. Nothing to do with my PC.

 

I think Apples might have had some "don't use" armor back in the 90s, but I'm not so sure that's the case these days. The Sony pictures North Korean hacking incident, was on an Apple based network? I can't recall.

 

I'll echo what Landon says about computers breaking down. I've been building my own rigs since 1992, and the primary culprit is heat and/or parts like an HD bearing going bad that causes a lot of issues. I'm embarrassed to say that one time I hadn't serviced an old late 90s Pentium when it started to act weird. I opened up the case and parts were crammed with dust bunnies. A thorough cleaning seemed to give it new life, but I eventually had to build a new computer because of increased hardware demands by newer media focused software.

 

Strictly speaking, for screenwriting or basic home finance, my old 386 would have worked just fine had the HD not gone bad. Oh well.

[Aapo Lettinen]

Oh I understand, it is just a matter of different attitude then and not about how the computers are used or what quality parts they are made of...

if every problem is user's fault then of course the computers themselves don't ever crash or have any errors, the user does :lol:

 

Even the piece of crap software I use, like Premiere or Resolve or FCPX is not prone to crashing, all the rest of the universe is just going to hyper speed every time the user THINKS that the software has frozen and responds very slowly B)

[Adrian Sierkowski]

Personally I've seen just as many crashes on OSx that I have on Windows (i worked in computer dept at my university all through college). Apple was actually WORSE when it crashed as the error messages told you NOTHING! Windows errors at least have some documentation beyond "ERROR MESSAGE -36: FILE." Thanks for that apple!

I will say my Windows 10 laptop hasn't had a single issue in the years I've had it (4 I think?) and I'm really not as careful as I should be on it. My Macbook PRO, when I had it, was back to Apple at least once a year for a logic board. Once it even broke 3 days AFTER I GOT IT BACK!.

Now; it's hard to say "PC -v- MAC" because PC can be anything from my top of the line Razer Blade laptop down to the $150 Asus I have for my Fiance. She's used it maybe 4 times and I know in a few more "uses" it'll die.

Point being, as echoed by others, nothing is perfect, and I'd say if you don't NEED an apple, then there's nothing wrong with a PC.

As for the ProRes Issue, it's a non-issue unless you need to export Pro-Res files. You can read them just fine.
Also also; chances are I'll be picking up a Mac Mini or an IMac sometime soon-ish just to have a desktop at home. I'm leaning towards Mac-Mini to run as a server for the house, though.

[Tyler Purcell]

Here is the issue, there are basically two types of deliverables these days for MOST iFrame content; Pro Res and DNX. Apple is 64 bit native for both codec's, built-in to the operating system and Windows has ZERO native support. So now you're forced to use a 3rd party program and some shitty non-compliant driver just to playback these codec's, unless you're using Premiere or DaVinci, which has DNX read/write integrated. DNX though has one small problem, it's not as efficient of a codec in terms of playback. Pro Res was designed specifically to disperse the transcoding onto multi-threads, but DNX doesn't do that as efficiently. DaVinci does use the GPU to write DNX files, but ya need a very fast GPU to really make up for the difference. Having done a myriad of tests, I've concluded that Pro Res and DNX are nearly the same speed on my tower, but on machines with lesser GPU's, DNX is noticeably slower. So for people with high-end GPU's, I get the reason they've switched.

[Tyler Purcell]

I've had issues with Windows-based PC's, don't get me wrong. No piece of technology is perfect. However, I will say that the way in which computers 'stop working' or 'break' is usually the result of user error.

Yes it's usually user error.

 

The difference is that on my Mac's, I never have to think about making an "error" when using them. There is nothing I can click on, that will muck anything up really.

 

Linux/Mac OS has a very clever safety feature called "root user" which is similar to administrator mode in Windows. The only difference is that, windows administrator needs to be setup when you first buy the machine and does no good when there is corruption at the user level, which is strange. Apple's root user mode, has a separate directory hierarchy for it's storage, thus it's nearly impossible to damage it. So in the event you have a screwed up user, you can boot in root, make a new user, copy your personal data over to the new user and login to it, without even having to re-boot. Where I've never had to use this trick on my personal machines, one could see how it can come in very handy. On big networks like the one's I've supported for over a decade, reboots can take 20 - 30 minutes sometimes to get volumes mounted and functioning properly. So you always wanna try to avoid reboots! heh :)

 

Windows more so, since Mac 'hides' much of what you can do to tear up the computer.

Yep, but you're proving my point kinda... why do you even know anything about your operating system? I shouldn't need to know anything about it, outside of basic navigation. I don't wanna ever download drivers, I don't wanna ever deal with software updates. I don't wanna do anything like that, ever. I wanna wake up, yawn, stand in front of my desk, wiggle my mouse and get back to work.

 

Yes, some of the tools we use, can cause issues, Avid can be a nightmare when you throw something wild at it, like trying to manually re-link something that's in a different codec then the original file, ohh throws it for a loop if you don't log off of the project first. However, outside of silly things like that, which brake nearly any program to be honest, I keep IT and my work, as far away from each other as possible.

[Landon D. Parks]

Yep, but you're proving my point kinda... why do you even know anything about your operating system? I shouldn't need to know anything about it, outside of basic navigation. I don't wanna ever download drivers, I don't wanna ever deal with software updates. I don't wanna do anything like that, ever. I wanna wake up, yawn, stand in front of my desk, wiggle my mouse and get back to work.

This depends on the user, and what the user is doing and how they like to work. If you don't ever want to touch the 'workings' of the OS, then OSX is definitely a more user-friendly software. Although, nothing is saying you have to delve into the Windows registry - that is your choosing - and again hearkens back to user error. If you don't need access to the internal code of Windows, just don't mess around in the system settings. However, what if you want access to more computer-level features? If ALL you are doing is video editing and such, you probably don't need it - but if you are using custom-code for programs, designing games, writing computer code for software and such - having access to the registry and the internal OS settings is vital. It is also possible to tweak performance of your system when you have access to the internals - like overclocking, RAM management, etc. Personally, I wouldn't like a computer telling me what I can and can't have access to - it's to restricting for me; but then again I know what I'm doing within the system. Again, just because you don't want access to the Os internal stuff, doesn't mean I don't --- and I think this is where Windows and OSX users differ the most.

 

That is why Apple computers are not a go-to for all professional work. There is a reason why coders and game designers and such use Windows - because Apple software does not allow you to make any adjustments to the OS. There is a reason that many server-based computers farms use Windows over Apple - while Apple has networking that is fairly user friendly, it doesn't have the same server-level support that Windows and to a greater extent Linux have.

 

Visual effects is also heavily skewed toward Windows based PC's, which could also overlap with the small-time video editor if he is doing his own VFX work. There is a reason VFX is mostly a windows-based endeavor - as Mac hardware is not up to the snuff for the networking and graphics requirements of such use.

 

I have noticed that in the professional design world, Macs have been popular with graphics designers and video editors and such, and not much beyond that. I liken that to the fact that neither use requires access to any part of the Os other than opening a program.

 

As I have said before and I'll say it again: OSX is perfectly fine, as is Apple hardware. There is nothing 'bad' about it per-see. If you like Apple products, or you need a Mac, get one and use it. It'll serve you just fine. However, a Windows based PC will also serve you just as well if you don't need a Mac specifically. There is no software of any importance that will work on a Mac and not on a PC (FCPX exempted - but then that program is basically iMovie). Windows no longer has the problems it use to have with security issues and software bugs / systems failures. Windows 10 is a much more user-friendly version of Windows. I work on Windows-based PC all the time, and don't experience any of the problems people decry Windows for - like BSOD, hardware failures, and corrupt systems. I have also never had a virus on my PC.

 

The bottom line is that what you should choose to buy for an computer system is based on your preference, the job you are doing, the software you need access to, and your budget. Don't use 'X system is unreliable so go with this one' mind-set, as its outdated and not giving you all the facts. OSX, Windows 10, and pretty much all recently Linux builds are stable, fast, and have no issues whatsoever that you won't run into with other OS's.

Edited January 19, 2018 by Landon D. Parks

[Tyler Purcell]

If you don't ever want to touch the 'workings' of the OS, then OSX is definitely a more user-friendly software.

Mac's don't require tinkering, so likewise there is no reason to tinker. Where Windows machines require massive amounts of tinkering (mostly drivers/software) to get running smoothly.

 

The way I look at is very simple... my time is worth too much to be muckin' around. So I let Apple muck around for me and then I simply use the machine. I can't afford to be down because I overclocked the proc and it heated up so much it caused a shut down. Stability is the name of the game with post production and yes, I'm ok with not getting the absolute maximum performance out of every component, in exchange for long-term steady operating.

 

Personally, I wouldn't like a computer telling me what I can and can't have access to

Ohh you can access anything you want. Type in a single command line sequence (defaults write com.apple.finder AppleShowAllFiles YES) that unhies the "clutter" and you can access it all. Apple doesn't prevent you from seeing the files, they just prevent the 12 folders of junk from showing up on your root directory, which is super annoying.

 

The cool thing is that with the built-in text edit tools, you can make substantial OS adjustments using a code language that's very easy to understand. When I was in IT for a living, we did all sorts of very cool, perminant changes to the OS by just adjusting a few paremeters here and there.

 

The only thing Apple's don't have is user adjustable bias. This helps prevent it from being hacked and ported since their operating system is pretty much the ONLY reason they're still in business.

 

Visual effects is also heavily skewed toward Windows based PC's

Today, many of the top programs (Maya, C4D, Nuke, etc) exist for both platforms and they work the same on both as well.

 

as Mac hardware is not up to the snuff for the networking and graphics requirements of such use.

Eh, I guess you didn't hear that my machine has 4 PCI slots and is fully capable of running an external chassis FULL of GPU's if I want.

 

This is the same with the trashcan as well... simply plugin an external PCI chassis and off to the races you go!

 

There is no software of any importance that will work on a Mac and not on a PC (FCPX exempted - but then that program is basically iMovie).

- 64 bit Pro Res decode/encode

- FCP/FCPX, Compressor, DVD Studio Pro, Motion, Quicktime Pro (very powerful tool btw)

- Dozens of built-in tools like real-time flight tracking and active currency exchange rates to active real-time 3D maps and navigation, all without the need to visit a website. The OS will even integrate this active data into documents if you so choose.

- Quick-preview of ANY file from camera raw through MXF wrapped MPEG2. (the most important feature I use every second of every day)

- Integrated multi-lingual spelling system. If I start typing German all of a sudden, it will recognize it and switch dictionaries.

- Integrated speech to text and text to speech. You can run the whole machine with speech commands if you so choose.

- A working search engine. Windows can't seem to figure that one out yet.

- System wide iCloud integration.

- Images, Calendar, Contacts, Email, Maps, Documents, Music, Texts, seamlessly integrated within individual apps on any computer and mobile device.

- Online recovery system. You can BOOT OFF THE CLOUD to restore your computer or update the OS if you want.

- Did I mention the OS supports NTFS, exFat, MSDOS and all the Mac/Linux drive formats stock.

- For graphic designers, the OS accepts OTF, TTF, TTC, bitmap, suite, dfont even font suicases. I've never seen a font the Mac OS won't accept. It also comes stock with a beautiful management program that previews all fonts.

- Finally, programs don't poop all over your computer when you install them. So if you wanna throw a program way, simply drag it to the trash and it will be gone.

 

There are probably 20 other things that make the Mac OS rock, but those are just the important ones.

 

When I sit down to use a windows machine, the first thing I do is click on a file, hit the spacebar to preview it and nothing happens. I'm like what? How can I quickly look at the contents of a file to know if it's something I want to waste my time opening, if I can't just quickly highlight it and preview it? This ONE FEATURE is why I simply can't use windows... ever. I bet most mac users don't even know half these functions exist OR how great they are when you're dealing with massive quantities of media like MOST people have.

 

 

Windows no longer has the problems it use to have with security issues and software bugs / systems failures.

Windows 10 is a lot better... but what about those people not using Windows 10? Mac OS hasn't really had any consumer level security issues in over a decade. So it's just not a worry at all.

[Landon D. Parks]

Eh, I guess you didn't hear that my machine has 4 PCI slots and is fully capable of running an external chassis FULL of GPU's if I want.

 

That is nice, but it's nothing my Windows PC can't do - The motherboard in my PC has 4x PCIe 3.0x16 slots, 1x PCIe 2.0x4, and 1x PCIe 2.0x1 slots. I can run 6 PCIe cards at the same time, plus an m.2 drive. AMD Threadripper also has 64 lanes of PCIe support, meaning it supports up to 7 full-power PCIe devices at the same time. If I wanted to, I could run 4 graphics cards in my case as well, and still run my Blackmagic card and my audio card. Of course, I have no need for 4 graphics cards - but the option to run 4 cards at full power is there if I ever needed it.

 

The thing about Mac hardware that gets me is the cost - I am running 32 threads at 4.1GHz over 64-PCIe lanes with 64GB of RAM (could update that to 128GB if I wanted), and that processor cost me less than $800. The only Intel chip that comes close to that is the $2,000 Core i9. I don't even think Mac offers that chip in their decide options, so the best you're going to get on a new built is a 10-core - and you can't put an i9 in an old Mac either -- the socket is entirely different.

 

Yes, you can customize Mac hardware to a degree --- but the problem is, once you start venturing outside of Apple-approved hardware, it might or might not even work. This is why Hackintosh's are so hard to get working. Apple supports only specific hardware.

Edited January 20, 2018 by Landon D. Parks

[Landon D. Parks]

Where Windows machines require massive amounts of tinkering (mostly drivers/software) to get running smoothly.

 

Come on, Tyler, really? Massive amounts of tinkering? I use to install Windows OS as part of my job, and I can say that this is totally untrue. The Windows 10 setup process does everything for you --- you only need to create a username and password and it sets it all up. Yes, you might need to install some drivers, but that depends on what hardware you are using. Windows automatically installs almost all the drivers you need, and the windows update process keeps those drivers up to date for you.

 

The only drivers I have had to manually install on my build are the nVidia drivers and the Blackmagic Video software, which has the driver for my 4K mini-monitor card. I doubt even Mac knows to install that Blackmagic driver by itself, and the graphics drivers --- while I did have to install it once, was painless to do, and keeps itself updated automatically in the background.

 

I have not encountered any driver compatibility issues, and like I said -- the two drivers I had to install were 'point and click' installs.

 

I'm not trying to paint Windows as the best OS - it has its issues - but it does not require massive amounts of tinkering. In fact, it requires no tinkering whatsoever - this has been true at least back to Windows 7 / Vista, and even XP wasn't that hard to setup. If you want to tinker, you can --- you can overclock your CPU, RAM, and GPU to get more power from them like I have --- but you don't have to.

 

The question I have is how you know so much about how hard Windows is to work with, when you claim you won't have any Microsoft product in your house? Are you basing this on old work you have done in the past?

 

 

Edited January 20, 2018 by Landon D. Parks