Super 8 Book

[Dan Paola]

I have recently purchased a Beaulieu ZMII & would like to purchase a book on super 8 cinematography and was wondering whether anyone could reccomend one? I have trawled thru amazon and there seem to be a couple of titles circa 1978-82, but as these are quite expensive I thought I'd get some guidance before making my purchase.

 

Take care

 

Dan (",)

[Scot McPhie]

Independent Film making by Lenny Lipton is a good one, as is The Home Movie Makers Handbook edited by Christopher Wordsworth.

 

You can also learn an unbelievable amount by participating in these forums - especially the filmshooting.com one which is temporarily down at the moment - just start going back through the pages here and you'll find heaps of info.

 

good luck with whatever you do :-)

 

Scot

[Guest santo]

How is super 8 cinematography so different that it requires a book different than any other good book on cinematography?

 

Why would anybody bother with a book written in the 70's when there are so many good modern texts you can buy new or second hand in a book store? Is it a nostalgia thing?

[David W Scott]

Independent Film making by Lenny Lipton is a good one, as is The Home Movie Makers Handbook edited by Christopher Wordsworth.

 

You can also learn an unbelievable amount by participating in these forums - especially the filmshooting.com one which is temporarily down at the moment - just start going back through the pages here and you'll find heaps of info.

 

good luck with whatever you do :-)

 

Scot

 

I second the Lipton recommendation. I think it is the bible of small-format indie filmmaking. Check out different editions -- some have more or less Super 8 info, covering different cameras.

 

I don't know your background, but if you are new to shooting film, I would also recommend Kris Malkiewicz' "Cinematography". I see by looking at Amazon.com that new editions of this book are co-authored with David Mullen -- a definite bonus.

 

If you are really starting out, you should get one really good book on shooting still photography -- that includes basic lens theory, exposure, zone system and lighting.

[ken wood]

Independent Film making by Lenny Lipton is a good one, as is The Home Movie Makers Handbook edited by Christopher Wordsworth.

 

You can also learn an unbelievable amount by participating in these forums - especially the filmshooting.com one which is temporarily down at the moment - just start going back through the pages here and you'll find heaps of info.

 

good luck with whatever you do :-)

 

Scot

 

 

There are two great books on cinematography by Blain Brown. Full color very well done.

While not specific to Super 8 Mr. Brown give all of the technical info on camera work, color, filters, etc.

They are on Amazon at about $45 each. Well worth the price. I'll buy the one on lighting next.

[steve hyde]

...I recomend "Film Technologies in Post Production" by Dominic Case. The second ed can be found easily. The book is printed by Focal Press... Although keep in mind this book is not specific to Super 8. In fact I don't think super 8 is even mentioned in it, but the workflows are the same for all film gauges. (more or less)

 

For learning about DIY telecine and other creative techniques try the online source: filmshooting.com

 

Also in case you haven't found it here:

 

http://www.cinematography.com/forum2004/in...hp?showforum=43

 

Steve

Edited June 27, 2006 by steve hyde

[Darren Blin]

Dan

I recommend just looking online for information. The internet is the best resource available. With all the new film stocks, no book from 20 years ago would give you the updated infoprmation that you need. I recommend:

 

http://www.onsuper8.org

 

as a great starting point.

 

Regards

Blin

[Matt Pacini]

How is super 8 cinematography so different that it requires a book different than any other good book on cinematography?

 

Why would anybody bother with a book written in the 70's when there are so many good modern texts you can buy new or second hand in a book store? Is it a nostalgia thing?

 

Because that's the last time most cameras out there were made, and there are lots of idiosyncracies that specific S8 cameras have, that you wouldn't know from regular books on cinematography.

 

For instance, when I started shooting S8, I was using a hand-held lightmeter, thinking this would be more accurate than the internal meter in the camera.

Well, guess what? All my footage came out underexposed, because all S8 cameras with beam splitters (almost all of them), have their internal lightmeters compensating for the lost light.

Stuff like that will be in some of these old Super 8 books.

 

I suggest the Lipton book as well.

 

MP

[David Mullen ASC]

Besides "Independent Filmmaking" (I wonder if he got the term "independent" started to describe this type of production?) he also wrote a book specifically on Super-8.

[Leo Anthony Vale]

Besides "Independent Filmmaking" (I wonder if he got the term "independent" started to describe this type of production?) he also wrote a book specifically on Super-8.

 

---Museum film programmers were using the term by the late 60s instead of 'underground'.

 

Perhaps the term 'underground' had become politically co-opted by the Weather Underground and such;

or it wasn't an edifying enough term for a museum venue.

 

---LV

[Guest santo]

independent has been around since the 30's. re: "the independents". howard hughes was an independent with WINGS, for example. exploitation filmmakers were on and off refered to (poor pun intended as in refer madness) as the independents in the 30's and the 40's. by the 50's we had the independents making stuff for the drive-in market and hardtops.

 

lenny lipton never contributed a damn thing to independent filmmaking except writing now hopelessly outdated 1970's books refered to endlessly by out of touch super 8 nostalgia buffs and those who don't know any better because they've been living under a rock.

[Tim Halloran]

independent has been around since the 30's. re: "the independents".

 

Earlier.

 

Between the years 1908 and 1912, a number of individuals formed companies to produce films outside of the dictates and regulations of the Motion Picture Patents Company, controlled principally by the Edison Company and often referred to simply as the "Trust." These outsider filmmakers were popularly known as "outlaws" or "independents," and are best exemplified by none other than Carl Laemmle, who would launch his first production company in 1909 under the name "The Independent Moving Picture Company", known as IMP.

 

Tim

[John Adolfi]

independent has been around since the 30's. re: "the independents". howard hughes was an independent with WINGS, for example. exploitation filmmakers were on and off refered to (poor pun intended as in refer madness) as the independents in the 30's and the 40's. by the 50's we had the independents making stuff for the drive-in market and hardtops.

 

lenny lipton never contributed a damn thing to independent filmmaking except writing now hopelessly outdated 1970's books refered to endlessly by out of touch super 8 nostalgia buffs and those who don't know any better because they've been living under a rock.

 

 

What are some of your favorite upto date super 8 books? Do they even have one? Brodsky and Treadway were the last no?

[David Mullen ASC]

lenny lipton never contributed a damn thing to independent filmmaking except writing now hopelessly outdated 1970's books refered to endlessly by out of touch super 8 nostalgia buffs and those who don't know any better because they've been living under a rock.

 

Writing an important and popular book of a particular era is no small accomplishment and does "contribute" to the filmmaking of that era.

 

And someone like you working mainly in Super-8 should be the last person to accuse others of living in the past.

[David Mullen ASC]

To clarify my snipe back at Santo's sniping, I wouldn't dismiss the nostalgia element in filmmaking, even 35mm production let alone 16mm or Super-8. We don't work in a vacuum, only in the present, we need to respect the history of our artform even if the origins are humble.

 

Besides, if one really only wanted to think of Super-8 from an engineering standpoint and was only concerned about maximizing image quality, then eventually you run into the fact that you are dealing with a film frame that is smaller than a fingernail. So you have to recognize that you are attempting to improve a format that has limitations by its basic design.

 

It's a little like people who want to fit 35mm cine optics to a consumer DV camera -- yes, you can improve the quality, but before you spend too much time and effort to do so, you have to ask yourself if you may get better results in a simpler fashion by changing the format or camera.

 

Personally, I think it would be great if someone built a new Super-8 camera from the ground up, perhaps modelled on the Aaton A-minima or Arri 416. Spinning mirror reflex, 200' mags, quiet, crystal-sync, multiple frame rates, bright viewfinder, 16x9 gate, etc.

 

I have a question: are all Super-8 cameras used? Are any of the companies still making new ones? If not, when was the last new Super-8 camera manufactured?

[steve hyde]

I have been told that the Beaulieu 9008 was still being manufactured in the 1990s - the production ended as late as 2002...

 

 

http://www.beaulieu.fr/

 

Having now worked with a Beaulieu 4008 (not 9008), I have to say that they are amazing little cameras. I have mine outfited with a light weight Angeniuex 5.9mm fixed focus lens, which makes it an aperature-and-shoot camera that is great for car interiors and other kinds of closed-quarters shooting...Good for filming in crowded places too.

 

I think the Beaulieu 9008 is currently more expensive than the Ikonoskop A-cam which seems to me to be a better small gauge option in many ways since super 16 is something like 6 times the gauge of super 8...

 

[Leo Anthony Vale]

independent has been around since the 30's. re: "the independents". howard hughes was an independent with WINGS, for example. exploitation filmmakers were on and off refered to (poor pun intended as in refer madness) as the independents in the 30's and the 40's. by the 50's we had the independents making stuff for the drive-in market and hardtops.

 

------As Humpty Dumpty said: "A word means exactly whatever I want it to mean."

 

The definition of 'independent filmmakers' is always changing.

 

The museum circuit independent filmmakers of the 70s, which Lenny Lipton is referring to, are not the non-big studio independents you are referring to.

Nor are either today's festival circuit Hollywood wannabbees.

 

What will the next "independent filmmakers" be?

 

---LV

[Guest santo]

etmh1, thank you for your scholarly contribution. it looks good on you.

 

mullen, you continue to completely miss the boat on everything i've ever advocated and what kodak and dozens of post shops have made reality with regards to a modern approach to super 8 in the 21st century. living in the past involves ignoring all those things and buying dusty old outdated books by Lipton and doing crude DIY telecine and pining over the loss of K40 -- like you bizarrely continue to advocate with regards to super 8, oblivious to all that's happening in the big old world.

 

 

What will the next "independent filmmakers" be?

 

---LV

 

anybody who is not backed/financed/controlled by a studio or distribution system when they make a film is an independent filmmaker. they are acting independently without an outside mandate or ties. it's a very simple thing to define.

[Matt Pacini]

I'd like to chime in, first in regards to your comments about Lipton, second about your comments about Mullen:

 

1. Obviously, some things in Lipton's book have modern counterparts that are superior, since people have been advancing Super 8 in the lasat 25 years. However, like I said earlier, since almost all Super 8 cameras were made around the time he wrote that book, and because modern cinematography books cover either general topics, or specific topics in regard to 16mm & 35mm, but almost never Super 8, his book is still valuable.

Just because 100% of it is not current, doesn't mean it's worthless, especially since there are NO better replacements for it out there.

 

2. Calling David Mullen, not only has shot many films, but shot them beautifully, "oblivious to all that's happening in the big old world." just shoots your credibility to hell, and makes you sound like some wacky crank 16 year old zit-faced wannabee.

I mean, let's be serious. Look him up on www.imdb.com & then try not to blush too much after you realize what you've done.

 

MP

[David Mullen ASC]

I'm just amazed that Santo doesn't see the inherent contradictions of thinking about Super-8 as 21st Century technology.

 

Sure we have new stocks, new telecines which have benefited Super-8 by a trickle-down effect from the professional 16mm/35mm world -- but where are the new CAMERAS? Someone is using C-mount lenses on old Super-8 cameras and yet claiming they are working with cutting-edge technology just because they can load Vision-2 stocks into the camera??? I'm sorry, but like ALL film technology, there are elements and processes that are very old and some that are very new. And old isn't necessarily bad.

 

But to also make it a point of pride that one is working with the "latest" technology... yet concentrate on shooting in Super-8, with no respect for the history of their format of choice because of its embarrassing (to him) connections to consumer home movies, well, it's all a bit strange psychologically. But I give up trying to reason with the guy.

[Jon-Hebert Barto]

santo:

 

Yeah, dude, basic lighting theory is the same for everything from still photography to IMAX photography, but that doesn't change the fact that super8 cameras are inherently limited by thier own size and optics that come glued to them! Maybe thats why they are rec'ing books from your outdated world\time?

 

As far as your Lipton comment, who the f*ck are you? I've been reading posts on this forum since before I was a member and never called you out before, preferring to sit back and laugh my ass off at you, but I have to say you are lost! Every thread you contribute to is left with the slimy, Cthulu-like trail of a asinine wanna-be.

 

You always seem to push "how smart " you are without ever really contributing to the dicussion in a educated, humble way.....Like Mr. Mullen. I mean, Mr. Mullen ASC!!! Get a clue, dude...

 

-Jonnie

Edited July 1, 2006 by BARCA

[David Mullen ASC]

Thanks, but I don't need defending.

 

I just don't get the hostility towards reading old books, especially ones about filmmaking where half the information is still valid. We still read "5 C's of Cinematography" and "Painting with Light". I sometimes even read Leonardo DaVinci's theories on painting for ideas for cinematography.

 

Santo knows a lot about getting the most out of Super-8, and I find that admirable. If he would only stick to imparting that information onto others, that would be great.

 

But he seems to turn every post into a swipe against something or someone -- Japanese manufacturers, Lenny Lipton, reversal film -- whoever and whatever reminds him of Super-8's connection to the old world of home movies. Only by knocking those things down can he build himself up. He's suffering from an inferiority complex -- he goes ballastic anytime anyone talks about Super-8 in any manner that doesn't involve prime lenses, Vision-2 negative, and high-end telecine work.

 

It would be like me going to the ASC clubhouse and insulting anyone who used an old lens or old process, or anyone who was retired for that matter. Next time I see Tony Scott, I should call him a dinosaur for using reversal film in those hand-cranked Arri-2C's... talk about living in the past!

 

Unless or until Santo writes and publishes a new definitive book on Super-8 (hopefully under a real name), I'm afraid that Lenny Lipton, not him, will be more remembered for his contributions to the format and it being taken seriously for real filmmaking.

[Rick Palidwor]

Re: older books: I have this wonderul "old" book (1960) "How to Shoot a Movie Story: The Technique of Pictorial Continuity" by Arthur L Gaskill and David A Englander (Morgan & Morgan Inc., publishers, New York). I found it at a yard sale for 25 cents. Everything they say about pictorial continuity remains true. Everything. I show it off in film classes I teach to make a simple point: most aspects of filmmaking have not changed. If you see a book, however old, it is probably worth grabbing, especially if it concerns principals of editing, cinematography and lighting. I wouldn't say the same about, say, producing, because it is a different world, but on the technical side most of the new gear is simply improvements on very old principals.

 

Re: Santo, if we ignore him maybe he'll go away.

 

Rick

[steve hyde]

Re: older books: I have this wonderul "old" book (1960) "How to Shoot a Movie Story: The Technique of Pictorial Continuity" by Arthur L Gaskill and David A Englander (Morgan & Morgan Inc., publishers, New York). I found it at a yard sale for 25 cents. Everything they say about pictorial continuity remains true. Everything. I show it off in film classes I teach to make a simple point: most aspects of filmmaking have not changed. If you see a book, however old, it is probably worth grabbing, especially if it concerns principals of editing, cinematography and lighting. I wouldn't say the same about, say, producing, because it is a different world, but on the technical side most of the new gear is simply improvements on very old principals.

 

Re: Santo, if we ignore him maybe he'll go away.

 

Rick

 

...I agree that many of the older books are great. The older books on editing - like Edward Dmytryk's "On Film Editing", 1984 is even better than many of the contemporary books on editing that read like software manuals.

 

 

An all purpose book on filmmaking that serves as a good starting point is Bordwell and Thompson's "Film Art."

 

[Guy Bennett]

I'll second those who recommend Lipton's "Independent Filmmaking" for general small gauge info and techniques, and his "Super 8 Book" for more Super 8-specific stuff, and echo those others who suggest exploring on-line resources as well. I've found a number of useful articles about a variety of technical issues (shutter angles, shutter speeds, editing, cleaning film, refilming, optical duplication, etc., etc.) on various filmmaking websites. As someone pointed out, forums such as this one and the one at filmshooting.com are also very helpful.

 

I also enjoy reading books and articles by contemporary small gauge filmmakers, especially those that explore both technical and aesthetic issues, as well as books on filmmakers I admire. Don't forget that there are also two magazines on small gauge and Super 8 filmmaking currently being published in English, and books and mags in other languages as well (such as the French journal "Exploding," and the publications of both Paris Experimental and Scratch Projections, all of which focus on experimental filmmaking).