Gino Terribilini Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 Just wondering what you guys would have done in this situation. This wasn't my rig, but our gaffer thought it was the best way to go. It was in a house, the cieling was about 18' up and the DP called for a medium shot with an overhead light. Go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member David Mullen ASC Posted August 13, 2006 Premium Member Share Posted August 13, 2006 It's hard to second-guess the grip on that one... I'd probably have gone with a beefier "menace arm" rig, meaning a big combo stand, lollipop (frame holder) and piece of speed rail (pipe), ratchet-strapped down the opposite end and used a ton of sandbags -- only in that I wouldn't have been tweaking that c-stand like that. But I see somewhat questionable rigs like that all the time on film sets... But first I would have found a way to rig the light to the ceiling. Or used the c-stand rig... but lived with a lighter fixture like a Dedolight or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Dan Goulder Posted August 13, 2006 Premium Member Share Posted August 13, 2006 (edited) Just wondering what you guys would have done in this situation. This wasn't my rig, but our gaffer thought it was the best way to go. It was in a house, the cieling was about 18' up and the DP called for a medium shot with an overhead light. Go. I don't know how you could possibly be more vague. medium shot of what? Is there supposed to be an actor in the shot? Where are they supposed to stand...directly under the light? Where is the rest of the light on the set coming from? Who's on first, what's on second, etc.? Or, are you questioning the quality of the rig iself, in which case I apologize for the misunderstanding. Please clarify. Edited August 13, 2006 by dgoulder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisConnelly Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 Maybe your key did the best he could with the gear that was available, but a C-boom or menace arm would have been easier and wouldn't have resulted in a broken c-stand and a bunch of bent arms. Just curious, with the way it is bent like that, were you even able to fully lower the top riser of that stand when the rig was wrapped? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gino Terribilini Posted August 13, 2006 Author Share Posted August 13, 2006 I don't know how you could possibly be more vague. medium shot of what? Is there supposed to be an actor in the shot? Where are they supposed to stand...directly under the light? Where is the rest of the light on the set coming from? Who's on first, what's on second, etc.? Or, are you questioning the quality of the rig iself, in which case I apologize for the misunderstanding. Please clarify. All of the above. Yes, an actor was supposed to be standing under the light and we were supposed to get a medium shot of him. The rest of the light is unnecessary, really... we had a 1200 HMI bouncing with a fresnel key off to the side. Had I been in charge, I would have been satisfied with that Baby up high, but the DP wanted an overhead light, so that's what we did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom Stitt Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 Max will take care of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilkin Chau Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 (edited) Ceiling 18' you say? I would have gone with a 2k Boom pole and a skyhigh. And maybe a ratchet strap from the end of the boom pole to the stand. If that stuff isn't available I would have used a c-stand as the "boom pole". So you would have a c-stand as the base and attach another c-stand perpindicular to that one with a cardellini. A c-stand itself is more stable than a grip arm. And since it's not as sturdy as a boom pole, I would have probably have used magic arms or grip arms to stabilize it to the stand itself (kind of like what your gaffer did in the pic). Rig looks like it might hold but I would have gone for something better since there's dolly track on the ground and it looks like the rig might get bumped. Edited August 13, 2006 by Wilkin Chau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hayes Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 Looks like a pretty rickety set up. Like everyone else has said. A smaller light with a larger stand and single piece of boom pole would have been a smarter choice. Sometimes I?ll use one side of my 8x8 frame and put the ear in the stand head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G McMahon Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 Just on the side, cut up some old tennis balls and put them on the feet of the stands so they don't scuff the nicely polished floor boards. Graeme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Sweetman Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 Just curious, what would be the normal method to fix a light to the ceiling? Looking at my own ceiling, there's a few lamp fixtures, and a circular air vent which may be the best bet for looping some wire around and tieing something to...but it seems like that would be even harder and sketchier than this setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilkin Chau Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 Just curious, what would be the normal method to fix a light to the ceiling? Looking at my own ceiling, there's a few lamp fixtures, and a circular air vent which may be the best bet for looping some wire around and tieing something to...but it seems like that would be even harder and sketchier than this setup. Depends really. On what lights you are using and the ceiling itself. If the light is small enough, you may be able to use scissor clamps in the ceiling. Office buildings usually have this option available. PLus you can hide cables pretty easily. Another option is to use a wall spreader. You can hang heavier lights on this rig. Just be sure to find the studs on the wall :) If it's just kino bulbs, you could even tape the heck out of it to the ceiling. If you're lucky there may be girders in the ceiling where you can attach girder clamps (aka ibeam clamp) and pipe. I'd have to see pictures of a ceiling to be able to tell you. PLus dimensions of the place wouldn't hurt either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Bays Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 I've never had a C-stand bend like that. The light doesn't seem that big. Anyway the stand arm should be at a 45 degree angle. It looks like the stand is toucking the track anyway so just move it forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kslamen Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 I definetly agree with Wilkin Chau - I've used a boom pole when I want some nice overall lighting adding some definition around my model's heads when I am doing a photo shoot as well. I must say, that with the stuff you were working with - it seems a little precarious. Was the pole bent like that when you got it? If not, was it the light that caused it? It looks like a 1k to me - what was it exactly? I was in a similar situation my last video - here I was using Arri 650 (and yes that is aluminum foil. The shoot was so last minute, we couldn't even get any snoots!) with the same type of rigging you had, but I guess the 650 was not as heavy as what you were suspending... and this was what we filmed as the finished product: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD Hartman Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 You have linked two arms together for the boom, but the overlap isn't great enough to keep the assembly ridgid. Since a boom wasn't available, a better choice would have been a single piece of 3/4 electrical conduit (EMT) for the boom. A 10' lenght is a few dollars at a home improvement store and can be cut down to 8' for a substitute boom. It will be more ridgid and fits in a jumbo grip head. You can pin or bolt a baby pin in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G McMahon Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 It looks like an older type of c-stand too. I have personally had bad experiences with wall benders/ wall breakers/ auto poles/ pole cats. Tip for the young players I have learned the hard way, Kitchens have a greasy film on the walls which make it hard for the pole cats to stay. Older houses can move, someone stands in a particular spot and the flooring, and then walls will move. Pole cats will for down at the most inopportune moment. Does any one know the specs for pole cats? e.g.: Polecat extended at "x" distance should only bear "y" amount of weight. G. McMahon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilkin Chau Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 It looks like an older type of c-stand too. I have personally had bad experiences with wall benders/ wall breakers/ auto poles/ pole cats. Tip for the young players I have learned the hard way, Kitchens have a greasy film on the walls which make it hard for the pole cats to stay. Older houses can move, someone stands in a particular spot and the flooring, and then walls will move. Pole cats will for down at the most inopportune moment. Does any one know the specs for pole cats? e.g.: Polecat extended at "x" distance should only bear "y" amount of weight. G. McMahon Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of polecats either. Don't know the exact weight limits but from experience I wouldn't put more than 3 small lights (peppers up to a 1K light, kinos) up there. And that's assuming the lights are hanging straight down. If the DP/gaffer wants the lights armed out from the polecat, that would create more tension on them. Never really thought about the walls moving. Interesting. Have to keep note of that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Haspel Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 this brought back memories of a rather russian ligting rig i once pulled off... i was gaffing this music video, and we had to light the drummer from above, same as the other musicians. but since he was so far back in the greenbox we had to hang the 2k on this 6m (if i remember correct) pipe. it bended a bit too much in order for me beeing totally relaxed. i was happy when we wrappend without anyone havind a blonde stuck to his head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Alessandro Machi Posted August 15, 2006 Premium Member Share Posted August 15, 2006 Just wondering what you guys would have done in this situation. This wasn't my rig, but our gaffer thought it was the best way to go. It was in a house, the cieling was about 18' up and the DP called for a medium shot with an overhead light. Go. For newbies that want to learn as much as possible from the picture please note the highest of the three legs of the C-stand is closest towards the light and as the weight brings the C-Stand arm lower to the ground the C-stand knuckle should self-tighten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik Andino Posted August 26, 2006 Share Posted August 26, 2006 Why not just use a menace arm? It's a pretty easy rig and is sturdy and very compact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Hohenshilt Posted September 23, 2006 Share Posted September 23, 2006 (edited) Sudo Menace arm. Edited September 23, 2006 by Charlie Hohenshilt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Hohenshilt Posted September 23, 2006 Share Posted September 23, 2006 Sudo Menace arm. Disreguard, I could not post an image for the quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Adam Frisch FSF Posted September 23, 2006 Premium Member Share Posted September 23, 2006 The rig is borderline, but I think that has something to do with the C-stand being a bit rickety and old. I think perhaps counter weighing the arm would have been better by hanging a sandbag on the opposite end of the lamp. I often use Mega Booms and find them the best thing since sliced bread since you can pan, tilt and articulate the head without having to physically climd up and do it. They can also take quite a bit of load if counter weighed properly. http://www.manfrotto.com/Jahia/site/manfrotto/pid/2868 But that MAX rig looks interesting - I'll have to ask my rental facility here if they've got it yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessica Bennett Posted September 23, 2006 Share Posted September 23, 2006 Just to mention about specs on grip equipment... If companies offered true specs to polecats and spreaders, I'm sure they'd have a big insurance issue. Its different when the rigging depends on itself, like truss. Safety first, know what you're doing before you attempt do it. Gripping is common sense, just everybody doesn't have a simple like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Hohenshilt Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 OK last try :unsure: 12' speed rail speed rail ear 2K stand 4" lollipop 2K pipe clamp 1200 Fresnel sash sandbags Modern Studio Equipment http://www.modernstudio.com makes more appropriate hardware to build a menace arm with. Modern's design allows you to use ratchet straps to distribute the weight of the load to the pivot point (center of gravity). It's similar to a jimmy jib in this respect. This rental company does not carry one. Hence a sudo menace arm :wacko: http://www.crewpix.com/gallery/v/StuntsFX/...50_001.gif.html http://www.crewpix.com/gallery/v/StuntsFX/IMG_0053.gif.html Charlie B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian hendry Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 well it all depends on what kind of gak you had to work with. i didnt read the entire post.....but ive been gripping for 7 years now, and all i can say is work smarter not harder....too me that looks like just a 200 up there, and its kicking that 40 inch arms ass. was it bent before hand?....with that rig right there, make sure your last knuckle gets the most weight, big foot to the light, knuckles on the right, crank the fu** out of it. bag it, walk away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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