Westsider Trailer... Yuck!

[John Adolfi]

Is it me or does this trailer look so super-8? Meaning the registration is...Yuck!

Westsider Trailer

[Toby L Edwards]

I think it looks great.

Toby

[Matthew W. Phillips]

Is it me or does this trailer look so super-8? Meaning the registration is...Yuck!

Westsider Trailer

 

What is so bad about looking "so super 8?" That is because it was shot on Super 8. I happen to think Charles Doran did a good job on the footage and Spectra did a good job on the telecine. I think if there is one thing I don't like, it's that he mixed too many different stocks together. However, that's also part of the appeal too. At least he made his venture educational.

 

Honestly, i think Super 8 nowadays can look better than what 16mm looked like decades ago. I have seen some pretty impressive footage from Super 8, but I guess it all comes down to opinion.

[Douglas Hunter]

The trailer has a well defined look, its very colorful, and everything, even the interiors have a lot of light. But listening to the VO it seems like they wanted to make a parody of a really glitzy, night-time soap opera style show. So personally, I don't think super 8 was a good format choice because the look is fighting the content. 24p SD video or pro-sumer HD would have been more in keeping with the style of show they are borrowing from. Also the inserted computer graphic was very out of place. I hope they will fix that.

[Toby L Edwards]

The plyback from BLIP.TV is a littel jumpy. If you go to the WESTSIDER website ther use to be Quick time files you could download. They playback a little smoother.

 

Mathew'

I agree. The new Super 8 stocks looks great.

 

Toby

[Toby L Edwards]

Ya'

I don't think The harsh, cold, over sharp look of video would work as well. In the short you go from the bright WESTSIDE "FUJI 50" look to the VALLEY less saturated look and I think it work with the story quite well.

Just my opinion.

Toby

[Mitch Perkins]

Sorry, I found myself asking - who is this idiot?

 

http://www.roadsideamerica.com/tnews/NewsI...p_AttrId==12816

 

"John not only wants artifacts and exhibits that disprove evolution, but that also have 'a great deal of buzzability.' For example, a planned exhibit of a spark plug encased in stone will show 'that rock can form quickly, which helps prove the idea that the Grand Canyon was laid within in weeks, months, years, after a worldwide flood -- not millions of years.' "

 

Ah, Google...'nuff said. ~:?)

 

Mitch

Edited September 11, 2007 by Mitch Perkins

[Matthew W. Phillips]

Sorry, I found myself asking - who is this idiot?

 

http://www.roadsideamerica.com/tnews/NewsI...p_AttrId==12816

 

"John not only wants artifacts and exhibits that disprove evolution, but that also have 'a great deal of buzzability.' For example, a planned exhibit of a spark plug encased in stone will show 'that rock can form quickly, which helps prove the idea that the Grand Canyon was laid within in weeks, months, years, after a worldwide flood -- not millions of years.' "

 

Ah, Google...'nuff said. ~:?)

 

Mitch

 

Mitch, I would refrain from making religious opinions on this forum. Also, referring to people as "idiot" is not professional and insults the integrity of this board. Further posts from you of this nature will be reported.

[Alessandro Machi]

I'm totally confused. The images may appear "jumpy" on blip TV because the frame rate may be less than what it was originally shot at but the images themselves look really good.

[John Adolfi]

Sometimes you get an overall impression when viewing something. I'm not criticizing the mans work per-se. After examining it again it is the handheld work along with the instability of the frame contrasted with the video generated shots that are of course smooth and steady and the handheld work of a camera only a few pounds that gives this trailer the over all impression of jerky, unprofessional look to it a Yucky super-8 look. Just my take on it. Which makes me either want to 1.) Buy single 8 and give it a try 2.) Have my next Beaulieu or Leicina serviced and use the framemaster. 3.) Always use a tripod 4.) Add a plate to the camera to weight it down before I do too much handheld work. And Mitch I love your posts and read then eagerly sorry you feel you needed to get personal about this last thread. Did you have something to do with this production?

Edited September 11, 2007 by John Adolfi

[kevin jackman]

i agree it looked bad. i like the crap registration in the time laps part. there are times when film movement lends to the scene, but really thats not good. handheld and bad registration is a horrible combination in most instances.

[Douglas Hunter]

I think there are a few things they could do to shape up the look and feel of this film. 1) Image stabilization would really help the poor registration and hand held shooting. 2) A dirt fix pass. 3) Another color pass, I get it they they wanted cartoon like colors but look at the skin tones. They are inconsistent and unattractive. for example In the ext. shot of the man standing with the asian woman, they are both orange, the woman in particular (maybe the characters were involved in a tragic west side "fake and bake" tanning accident?). Again I am considering the genre of the film, I would think that they would want to make their talent look as good as possible. Certainly their use of wardrobe and makeup suggests that they wanted to achieve a certain level of LA style. What I see in the trailer is that saturation was the ultimate thing they were going for in color timing and other aspects of the image suffered. Just my 2 cents. Ultimately I'm very interested in seeing the film with sound! Its hard to get an idea of how well it works with picture only. Finally despite my criticisms, I still really dig the ambition and hard work that goes into any narrative project done on Super 8. Charles is alright in my book.

[Giles Perkins]

On the Blip.tv page select "source mpeg-4" from the "select a format" button to see the best version. We default to Flash cos it means more people can see Super 8 flicks quicker!

 

Cheers

[Alessandro Machi]

On the Blip.tv page select "source mpeg-4" from the "select a format" button to see the best version. We default to Flash cos it means more people can see Super 8 flicks quicker!

 

Cheers

 

I couldn't find this option and I looked for a while. Were you refering to the person who uploads a video rather than those who view it? Until I can see the trailer frame by frame, I pretty much disagree with all the negative comments. The look is terrific.

 

How dare someone make Super-8 look colorful. :ph34r:

[Raz Birger]

John, What you said wasn´t very nice, next time please be more pleasant when you criticize someone´s work. I´m sure you will be more respected :) .

But for now let´s forget about it and try to avoid anymore such incidents in the future.

 

I think the colors are very nice and if this is what Charles wanted for his film it's even great.

About the poor registration, it can be fixed, but I think I was stabilizing only a few shots where it doesn't look so good, because there are shots that aren't bad at all. The negatives look very steady near the other (reversal) footage, I hope the registration will be as good as in westsider with my 200T :) .

And Douglas, I have talked a bit with Charles, around six months ago and he told me it has only music and V.O. of the main character, good solution for Super-8 film with non-sync cameras.

The film looks very interesting and I would like to see it once B)

 

Raz.

[Giles Perkins]

Alex,

 

On the page http://blip.tv/file/370767 under the image, text and star rating on the right hand side there is a drop down menu entitled "Play video in alternate format - select a format" - in there switch it to Source MPEG-4 and this will then play out the Quicktime high quality version. You will need Quicktime 7 to view.

 

[Toby L Edwards]

Giles'

Thanks for the tip. The MPEG 4 LOOKS MUCH BETTER.

Now I have to go back and watch all the clips again.

Toby

[Alessandro Machi]

Is it me or does this trailer look so super-8? Meaning the registration is...Yuck!

Westsider Trailer

 

I found two shots with noticeable registration issues, the end time-lapse shot, and the shot where the lead is doing some martial arts pose. Those two shots represent such a tiny fragment of the entire trailer that to harp on that seems inane to me. Not only that, they come so far into the trailer that there is a lot more to like before those shots even come up.

 

Maybe the opening shot had a tiny bit of jumpiness in it, but the shot was well composed, it was a cinematic shot that stands above whether it had a tiny bit of jitter to it.

 

If you can't recognize kick ass spot on saturated color when you see it you shouldn't be criticizing anyones work.

[Mitch Perkins]

If you can't recognize kick ass spot on saturated color when you see it you shouldn't be criticizing anyones work.

 

The OP criticizes the Super 8 format itself, on the Super 8 forum; complaining, where the idea is to make the best of it.

 

Nothing to do with the work, "per-se". ~:?)

 

Mitch

[Douglas Hunter]

If you can't recognize kick ass spot on saturated color when you see it you shouldn't be criticizing anyones work.

 

 

Question: What do you mean by "spot on"? If you mean the ability to recognize the accuracy of color representation, you should know that humans have terrible color memory. We are cognitively not capable of remembering the value of a specific hue for more than a few seconds. So for example the yellow roller coaster in the trailer. Yes it is and was clearly yellow, but is the yellow we see on the film the same yellow that the coaster is on a sunny day? None of us can give an accurate answer to that question. Maybe you were getting at some thing else but I figured I'd mention this if for no other reasons than its an interesting fact and one that many folks don't know.

 

Second, its perfectly legit to be critical of a director's color choices if they are not right for the show. Some people will like the super saturated look of West Sider others won't. But I doubt that anyone posting here can't recognize that the colors are highly saturated. The question is how does that saturation impact the story telling. The OP has every right to be critical of that, and any other aspect of the production.

[Charles Doran]

Wow - a lot to respond to. Go away for a few days and then see such a lovely title in a thread for a film you worked your ass off to make.

 

Ok, here goes:

1.) the color saturation which some people have a problem with -- if you go to the Westsiderfilm.com website you will see that it clearly states that the film is about an ambitious guy who has an insatiable love for the "Westside of Los Angeles" -- hence the super-saturated stock of the Velvia and K40. When I was telecining it at Spectra, Doug asked me if I wanted to tone down the Velvia. I said, "no" because the super-saturated color represented how the character thinks the "Westside" looks. When he moves to the Valley the colors get significantly muted (and the stock changes -- outdoors we used 7240 and 64T designed to look like 7240 -- indoors we stuck with the 200T but I had Doug give it an ugly tinted look. So yes, the stocks of the film were deliberate -- they can almost be seen as "characters" in the film.

 

2.) Registration. It does look more jumpy in the non-mpeg 4 version. For the shots with the guy on the diving board doing his b.s. yoga poses we had camera issues (I had to take my Elmo 1012-XLS to Spectra because it wasn't running their 1st generation Velvia as well). I don't think it looks that bad -- certainly not compared to some of the people here and on filmshooting.com who post links to their crappy youtube home movies -- it's not like you see a long thread where we criticize them. ;)

 

3.) Tripod was used in all indoor shots -- the way some of the comments are made one would think my DP was running as she shot -- not true. In the exteriors (ironically the one exterior where we did use a tripod was the diving board/yoga poses scene) she had her arms locked down. I have shown this film to about 100 people so far and not one person mentioned the registration looking bad. Here is a quote from one online reviewer (badlit.com):

 

"Doran has shot an absolutely beautiful film. Although 8mm film is a dying art, Doran and his cinematographer Laura Daroca use a saturated, vibrant color palette for a very rich, lush look. You can understand the main character?s obsession with the Westside when it?s as vivid looking as Daroca shoots it. But, at the same time, 8mm is a very grainy film, plus colors smartly change with each neighborhood profiled ? the Valley is done up in ugly sepia tones ? and there is no sync sound in the film. The story is told entirely through the main character?s narration, so like in reading a zine you?re aware of it?s photocopied nature, when watching Westsider, you?re still very aware of the celluloid medium even after it?s transferred to DVD." http://www.badlit.com/?cat=5

 

From the most recent Super-8 Today:

"Visually the film is very appealing. The Super-8 look works to a tee. The entire film, with the exception of a few still pictures, was shot on Super-8, and much of it is beautiful and well photographed. The interiors are lighted well, giving the film the polished look of a professional production. All in all, this is a perfect example and a good study of what a short narrative film should be, and an excellent film to watch by any filmmaker desiring to see how a Super-8 film can be structured to look as if it was made from one of its larger format cousins."

 

and from microfilmmaker.com:

"Doran seems to have mastered the use of Super8 photography, something which is increasingly becoming a lost art. Not only does the motion signature and grain inherent in Super8 film immediately seem to boost the production values by thousands of dollars, but Doran?s choice of film stock, combined with his use of filters and color correction creates a tonal variety that I still haven?t seen replicated with digital video cameras. There is something about the over-saturated ?pop? of the blue sky and green grass captured by the Super8 film that seems impossible to replicate in any other medium. Doran uses this highly-saturated color palette during the ?happy times? of the character arc. However, once Mr. Westsider starts his downfall, the colors become more desaturated. Towards the end of the film, we are presented with shots in muted blues and sickly yellows, reflecting the mental state of the main character." http://www.microfilmmaker.com/critiques/Is...3/Westsid2.html

 

<<Second, its perfectly legit to be critical of a director's color choices if they are not right for the show. Some people will like the super saturated look of West Sider others won't. But I doubt that anyone posting here can't recognize that the colors are highly saturated. The question is how does that saturation impact the story telling. The OP has every right to be critical of that, and any other aspect of the production.>>

 

Sure, anyone has a right to criticize. But re the obnoxious OP, a.) he's doing it in a deliberately annoying way (would you like it if you opened up a message board to see the title of your film with the childish "yuck!" next to it, Doug?) and b.) how does the OP know if the color choices are right for "the show" on the basis of a one-minute trailer? No one is claiming that the colors are not highly saturated.

 

I'm wondering if Adolfi is from the Valley... ;)

[Douglas Hunter]

Sure, anyone has a right to criticize. But re the obnoxious OP, a.) he's doing it in a deliberately annoying way (would you like it if you opened up a message board to see the title of your film with the childish "yuck!" next to it, Doug?) and b.) how does the OP know if the color choices are right for "the show" on the basis of a one-minute trailer? No one is claiming that the colors are not highly saturated.

 

I agree the OP was obnoxious, and I wouldn't like to have that experience. But unfortunately its part of the price of putting one's stuff out there. But that really had nothing to do with my post, I was simply interested in discussing technical aspects of what we saw in the trailer. Maybe I'll put my next project on the web and post the link here just for kicks. I'm sure there are a few that would really dig tearing it apart!

 

Is Westsider being screened anywhere in town?

[Charles Doran]

I agree the OP was obnoxious, and I wouldn't like to have that experience. But unfortunately its part of the price of putting one's stuff out there. But that really had nothing to do with my post, I was simply interested in discussing technical aspects of what we saw in the trailer. Maybe I'll put my next project on the web and post the link here just for kicks. I'm sure there are a few that would really dig tearing it apart!

 

Is Westsider being screened anywhere in town?

 

I have no problem with any of your constructive comments, Doug. Hopefully I was able to answer your points.

 

Right now, Westsider is being submitted to fests -- but due to last-minute editing I missed a lot of deadlines for fests that were local. I'll post if it's going to screen in L.A. Ironically I missed the San Fernando Valley film fest for this year but will submit for next year -- now that would be hilarious if "Westsider" was accepted there.

Edited September 13, 2007 by Charles Doran

[Raz Birger]

Hello Charles,

First of all, how are you?

 

You are right about John, it wasn't nice at all to criticize your work like he did, as I already mentioned in my previous message, but I think (or hope) he understood that. From he's other messages he doesn't look like a bad guy as much as I remember :)

Another thing Charles, don't take this too hard, you can also find here some friendly feedbacks

 

Have a nice weekend,

Raz.

[Matthew Buick]

I think the colourful stocks did wonders the film. It certainly sold Westside to me, though I don't think I'd ever get an invitation to live there. ;) One thing I didn't like was the CGI title, after going to all the trouble with that beautiful Super 8 cinematography the unrealistic CG partially ruined my outlook of the film (not to assume that I', knocking you efforts, it's better that I could do).

 

Good show, old bean. :P