Redcine is here (for all)

[Michel Hafner]

(links removed by admin)

[Tim Tyler]

Michel,

 

If you have information or something to discuss then include it in your post. Simply linking to another web site or forum is not acceptable.

[Michel Hafner]

Michel,

 

If you have information or something to discuss then include it in your post. Simply linking to another web site or forum is not acceptable.

That redcine is here and you can try it out is information, no? It was released today. It's not outdated information. What do you want? A report of all bugs I found? ;)

The first link was the place from where you can get it. The second a link to page with a link for a clip you can process. Should everybody go searching for such links themselves?

Edited November 15, 2007 by Michel Hafner

[Phil Rhodes]

> What do you want? A report of all bugs I found?

 

Yes, that would be useful.

 

Phil

[Craig Harding]

Just a note for Stephen Williams - when people describe this particular forum as fundamentally hostile to the Red Camera and all the usual suspects puff up in outrage demanding exact names, places, and where the bodies are buried or it never happened, this is precisely the kind of thread they're referring to.

[David Mullen ASC]

Just a note for Stephen Williams - when people describe this particular forum as fundamentally hostile to the Red Camera and all the usual suspects puff up in outrage demanding exact names, places, and where the bodies are buried or it never happened, this is precisely the kind of thread they're referring to.

 

So all it takes is one or two negative posts or posters for an entire forum to be labelled as "fundamentally hostile"? What, do you expect zero criticisms, no cranky people, etc.? That's not really reasonable in a forum with a wide-ranging membership. Even if one-third of the membership here were consistently negative towards RED, would that constitute "fundamental" hostility of the entire forum? You'd think you'd need a simple majority at least to get that label, and I don't see 51% of the membership here as being anti-RED.

[Craig Harding]

The hostile posts appear to be given tacit approval by the majority of contributors to the forum (see: your post), and is only reinforced by cases like this thread where I'd argue that it clearly demonstrates a moderator taking a reflexively anti-Red stance.

 

I've been lurking here for months, and after about the first two I decided this place was really only good for the humour value (ie "Hmm, there's some positive news about the Red One, let's go see how the usual suspects on C.com denounce it...."). There are some greatly knowledgeable industry people here who are an invaluable resource, but in this particular sub-forum they're clearly the exception.

 

Oh and while I wouldn't really classify you as one of the "Usual Supects" David, I would repeat: "all the usual suspects puff up in outrage demanding exact names, places, and where the bodies are buried or it never happened". Denial: it's not just a river in Egypt.

[Gary McClurg]

Denial: it's not just a river in Egypt.

 

Does that run north or south... :lol:

[Adrian Sierkowski]

I wouldn't really rate people as pro, or anti. People have their opinions, that is all. In truth, I don't really think any of us would pass up on a job opportunity just because our "media holder," happens to be a RED. I know I certainly wouldn't (and I too would I suppose qualify as anti-red).

I just don't think people here have, in past, responded well to the notion that Red is the Be-all-end-all. And of course, we are only human, we get into heated debates and never like to be proved wrong, hence the perception of "attitude." But, this begs the question, what would happen if you went into, let's say a beer lovers forum and posted with a brand new brand of beer was going to upset the status quo?

Now, red may not have overtly done such a thing, but I can speak from my own readings on here that there is the ambiance of such statements in some of the red literature. Of course, this is normal; and it's just advertising. Sometimes, though, it's taken too seriously. The red is a tool; nothing more.

Edited November 16, 2007 by Adrian Sierkowski

[Daniel Sheehy]

I've been lurking here for months, and after about the first two I decided this place was really only good for the humour value (ie "Hmm, there's some positive news about the Red One, let's go see how the usual suspects on C.com denounce it...."). There are some greatly knowledgeable industry people here who are an invaluable resource, but in this particular sub-forum they're clearly the exception.

Then this is obviously not the forum for you mate. By and large this place is an excellent resource for people wanting real info on hands-on, everyday issues.

 

If you're honest, you'll acknowledge that there were a lot of valid issues raised by people here, which are now being dealt with by Red-users. However no one wanted to talk about them at the time.

 

Those "knowledgeable industry people here who are an invaluable resource" don't really like to spend their time discussing the theoretical possibilities of a yet to be released piece of hardware... a simple look through the archives would have told anyone that C.com isn't the place to discuss your product unless you're ready and willing to have it taken apart in front of you.

 

Come on, I haven't seen a single instance, anywhere on the net, where promoting products before their launch didn't lead to pointless arguments over details that can't be known till its released... and you just have to look at some Nikon-Canon or computing forums to see that even releasing the product in question won't stop the arguments.

[Chris Keth]

Just a note for Stephen Williams - when people describe this particular forum as fundamentally hostile to the Red Camera and all the usual suspects puff up in outrage demanding exact names, places, and where the bodies are buried or it never happened, this is precisely the kind of thread they're referring to.

 

It's the byproduct of the moderators here keeping this forum from degenerating like most forums on the net, reduser included. It's not hostile, we just like documentation so we're not chasing or believing rumors.

[David Mullen ASC]

The hostile posts appear to be given tacit approval by the majority of contributors to the forum (see: your post), and is only reinforced by cases like this thread where I'd argue that it clearly demonstrates a moderator taking a reflexively anti-Red stance.

 

Phil asking for a list of bugs in REDCINE is cause for moderator action??? It may be a bit blunt and cynical in that Phil sort of manner, but one post like that doesn't cross the line into forum abuse. It would have been a bit early for a moderator to step in.

 

If cynicism was banned from this forum, we'd lose half the people here.

 

I can't micromanage people's attitudes here.

 

Look... this forum will always have a percentage of people who are skeptical about certain products or companies, and certainly Phil doesn't reserve his attitude exclusively to RED. This is not a video users only site, and it's not the RedUser site either, so there is no way to get 100% positive attitudes here on the topic.

[Chris Nuzzaco]

I suppose someone should get this thread back on track....

 

I actually tried it all out, its pretty slick, but it's certainly a beta build.

 

The interface looks a lot like Lustre, or any Autodesk type program really, in other words, the program takes over your monitor, LOL.

 

There is a general agreement over at Reduser that a more user friendly way of minimizing the program needs to be developed, but at the moment, its not that big a deal, just one of the small luxuries desired really. All the "meat and potatoes" functionality is there, and thats what matters. The program will only improve if people actually provide some feedback, and believe me, people over at Reduser are picking it apart.

[Michel Hafner]

> What do you want? A report of all bugs I found?

Yes, that would be useful.

Phil

I froze up my laptop with the clip when playing with the gamma. :lol:

But my laptop has not the necessary 'power' anyway to deal with 'it'. And not enough free disk space.

[Craig Harding]

It's not hostile, we just like documentation so we're not chasing or believing rumors.

 

Documentation? You mean like links to the long-anticipated release of the Red One's primary file conversion software.

 

Apparently not so much.

[Stephen Williams]

Documentation? You mean like links to the long-anticipated release of the Red One's primary file conversion software.

 

Apparently not so much.

 

Hi,

 

I think you are correct, it is somewhat late in it's release. Hopefully they have fixed most of the bugs by now.

 

Stephen

[Freya Black]

Documentation? You mean like links to the long-anticipated release of the Red One's primary file conversion software.

 

Apparently not so much.

 

Craig, I think the point was that maybe you should have written some text explaining what each of the links are so that people would know where the links were going to take them before they clicked on them.

 

A post that just contains links can be confusing especially over time as the links become dead.

 

love

 

Freya

[Brian Drysdale]

Speaking of confusing, I notice in the photographs in the operating manual, that the RED's control buttons and outputs don't seem to have any icons or labels. This could be confusing to people who don't regularly use the camera and you don't always want to be checking the manual as to which button is which.

 

This could be a bigger issue with the rental cameras, where people use different cameras all the time and the icons/labels really help when you're working quickly.

[John Sprung]

Phil asking for a list of bugs in REDCINE is cause for moderator action??? It may be a bit blunt and cynical in that Phil sort of manner, but one post like that doesn't cross the line into forum abuse. It would have been a bit early for a moderator to step in.

I'd agree that it's not quite up to what would require action, but it's definitely not a realistic or unbiased attitude. To ask that the day a beta version is released is sort of like asking you, on the first day of principal photography, how many stars each critic will give your movie. The purpose of beta testing is to find bugs. The Red guys have been absolutely clear that what they're selling is a work in progress. I don't know that they've explicitly used the term "beta test", but it would be clear to anybody who's ever been involved in software development that that's what this whole project is.

 

It should also be abundantly clear to us all by now that these Red guys come from a world where skins are significantly thinner than they are here in Hollywood. But they're working on something that has the potential to become a classic that we'll end up loving as much as, say, the Arri IIC. Phil has a massive amount of knowledge and experience. He also has a propensity to zoom in on any potential gotchas like an eagle seeing a mouse from a mile up. That's a good thing, because we need the gotchas found before they get us. The trick in all this, just like putting a crew together, is to use the good qualities of all the players, and supplementing their weaknesses, while keeping them from killing each other. ;-)

 

 

 

-- J.S.

[Keith Mottram]

Just a note for Stephen Williams - when people describe this particular forum as fundamentally hostile to the Red Camera and all the usual suspects puff up in outrage demanding exact names, places, and where the bodies are buried or it never happened, this is precisely the kind of thread they're referring to.

 

twat!

[Keith Mottram]

man i've been away for so long and i've really missed... what have i missed... jeesh more rumours, discussions of non working products and sniping from people lurking in the shadows of cinematography.com (and quite possibly the industry me thinks)...

[Craig Harding]

twat!

 

Thank you for your valued contribution - you've raised a number of intriguing points that I shall now spend several days considering. It's no surprise you're such a prized member of this community.

 

BTW David (and others) - the uneven moderator action I was referring to was the removal of links from this thread's Original Post.

 

I've also found this thread enormously illuminating as to claims of impartial objectivity of various players.

[Daniel Sheehy]

BTW David (and others) - the uneven moderator action I was referring to was the removal of links from this thread's Original Post.

Did you actually post something of your own, or did you simply copy&paste links?

[Craig Harding]

Did you actually post something of your own, or did you simply copy&paste links?

 

I've noticed that actually going back and reading the original post in this thread appears to be too challenging for some commenters here; perhaps this will assist.

 

[Craig Harding]

And in case it's not clear:

 

If this forum is really for and about objective discussion of the Red One camera and a resource for cinematographers and others to assist them in working with the camera and evaluating its pros and cons, then the content of the original post (links to the official Red forums announcing the release of RedCine) seem like exactly the kind of valuable information that should be posted here.

 

You could argue that just posting links without some accompanying discussion is some breach of the forum rules (there is that teensy inconsequential problem that as far as I can tell the forum rules don't actually say that anywhere) but surely, if support and aid to independent non-red-fanboy users of the camera is the fundemental purpose of this forum then surely the correct action was to firstly leave the links intact and then secondly reprimand the hapless Original Poster via a followup message in the thread, or perhaps via a PM.

 

Kneejerk out-of-hand deletion of the links by a moderator strongly suggest to me an agenda other than one trying to support users of the camera. That is all.

 

I've seen nothing in this thread to dissuade myself of that original notion, and indeed much to support it. Abusing me or the OP or the camera or the type of posts made by some overenthusiastic supporters of the camera all similarly fail to refute that impression.