Premium Member Paul Bruening Posted March 15, 2009 Premium Member Share Posted March 15, 2009 Reading everyone's posts and finding something agreeable in all of them I am compelled to wonder if we (humans) are really ready for our own current social evolution? Can we do this? Can we survive our own creation of modern life? I am beginning to doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saul Rodgar Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 Sure Saul.. throw the baby out with the bath water... <_< Interesting how you attacked him as a person and not what he wrote... Â Wait, what I said is that Jefferson wrote that all men are created equal, yet he owned slaves (not equal to free men) and fathered mixed-race children, apparently not good enough to be legally recognized as his and who were therefore not equal to his white children. Â It is the disconnect between what he wrote and how he led his life what I question. If he had never written his famous "All Men Are Created Equal" line, no one could attack him for not living up to his own stated moral standards. Â I'm sorry David, but I don't see how this constitutes a "personal attack." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saul Rodgar Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 I'm sorry David, but I don't see how this constitutes a "personal attack." Â Â Â Legitimate uses Not all uses of tu quoque arguments involve logical fallacy. They can be properly used to bring about awareness of inconsistency, to indirectly repeal a criticism by narrowing its scope or challenging its criteria, or to call into question the credibility of a source of knowledge. Â Â Â Â You-too version A legitimate use of the you-too version might be: Â A makes criticism P.A is also guilty of P.Therefore, the criticism is confusing because it does not reflect A's actual values or beliefs. Example: "You say that taking a human life is wrong under all circumstances, but support killing in self-defense; you are either being inconsistent, or you believe that under some circumstances taking a human life is justified." Â <a name="Inconsistency_version_2" id="Inconsistency_version_2"> Â Â http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Chris Keth Posted March 16, 2009 Premium Member Share Posted March 16, 2009 I was under the impression we talked about cinematography here. <_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Paul Bruening Posted March 16, 2009 Premium Member Share Posted March 16, 2009 Hey Saul, Â I used to be really concerned about the use of logical fallacy in chat and forums. I soon had to just give it up. Logical fallacy should be renamed common thought because of its prevalence. I guess what I'm saying is that navigating interactions with people seems to require a lot of overlooking of your own brain-flags. I still like all of these people even though, occasionally, some of their thoughts don't always fly cleanly through my head. I assume they show me the same courtesy... often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Brad Grimmett Posted March 17, 2009 Premium Member Share Posted March 17, 2009 I pray for the same for Mr. Grimmett and his family. Go sell crazy somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Chris Keth Posted March 18, 2009 Premium Member Share Posted March 18, 2009 I was under the impression we talked about cinematography here. <_< . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Rakoczy Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 I wish you and your family well and that is your response? Â Mr. Grimmett, when you have actually DP'd something... something that you actually 'lit' yourself.. you know.. using meters... on anything... anything worthwhile at all.. using actual 'film'... let us know.. because your hack (tv) operator reel does not support the weight you attempt to throw around this forum. Â What a jerk... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Adrian Sierkowski Posted March 18, 2009 Premium Member Share Posted March 18, 2009 Sometimes I wonder how we all get along ;) I'm a pseydo-socialist (ironic as I'm also a capitalist when it comes to shooting) and some of us enjoy the capitalism while at the same time I know most you are all certainly generous just being here and sharing ideas, insights, experience. But, it is pity some sometimes can't just let ideas mingle 'round and dialogue on 'em all not argue back and forth so much so, as expand and question them. And aside, we are all hypocritical at one point in our lives... ok maybe not all of us, but I've never know anyone that far above reproach. Â Wish you all well, and hope this downturn turns 'round for all of us, socialistic, capitalistic, anarchistic, etc-ist-ic! Â Now, anyone know the best way to pass one's time while waiting on work? I'm thinking of learning to ferment my own wine.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Now, anyone know the best way to pass one's time while waiting on work? I'm thinking of learning to ferment my own wine.... Â Don't wait for your ship to come in, swim out to it ;) Â R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_Alderslade Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Don't wait for your ship to come in, swim out to it ;) Â R, Â I'm not enjoying this quiet spell, it totally sucks. It feels like when ever my career starts to finally get going I always hit a brickwall (literally, in one instance) be it broken bones, illness, credit crunches... Â It probably hurts more now as there is very little non-film work to fall back on, as now unemployment in all industries here is rising dramatically. Â At least now we've have some sunny weather (here in the UK) to enjoy unemployment in, though it serves as a reminder I probably won't be able to afford goin on holiday this year, again... Â ...ah well, bring on a heat-wave :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Adrian Sierkowski Posted March 18, 2009 Premium Member Share Posted March 18, 2009 I know what you mean Andy. While I'm thrilled to be booked this month... that's 'bout it... Looks like I'll spend the summer labeling all my kit.. again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Rich Steel Posted March 18, 2009 Premium Member Share Posted March 18, 2009 I wish you and your family well and that is your response? Mr. Grimmett, when you have actually DP'd something... something that you actually 'lit' yourself.. you know.. using meters... on anything... anything worthwhile at all.. using actual 'film'... let us know.. because your hack (tv) operator reel does not support the weight you attempt to throw around this forum.  What a jerk...  Wow, easy there tiger you need to chilax with your responses.  You've tried to flame me on this thread (early on) for your lack of understanding (for want of a better word) of my British satire/humour/sarcasm. Just because you own a film camera gives you no right to talk like that to anyone on this forum.  My website hasn't been updated for at least a couple of years but yet you seem to assume that I come from a digital background...WRONG. I've been working in this business for over 20 years now, starting out as a runner and now after those 20 years consider myself to be a Lighting Cameraman and just for the record, YES i do own and know my way round a F**KING (sorry that's my tourets again) light meter.  As Jesus Quintana said in "The Big Lebowski"....Let me tell you something, pendejo. You pull any of your crazy poop with us ON THIS FORUM AGAIN, you flash YOUR 16mm CAMERA on the lanes, I'll take it away from you, stick it up your ass and pull the **(obscenity removed)** trigger 'til it goes "click."  Spread the peace and love.......Oh and money (in my direction). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Kieran Scannell Posted March 18, 2009 Premium Member Share Posted March 18, 2009 I wish you and your family well and that is your response? Mr. Grimmett, when you have actually DP'd something... something that you actually 'lit' yourself.. you know.. using meters... on anything... anything worthwhile at all.. using actual 'film'... let us know.. because your hack (tv) operator reel does not support the weight you attempt to throw around this forum.  What a jerk...  David,  Brad Grimmett is a respected professional who contributes a wealth of knowledge to this forum and if he is a hack (tv) operator  well then I guess 90% of this forum also fall into that category.  This is not what this forum is for and It's getting steadily worse, please respect your colleagues!  On a lighter note my year started very slow and worrying, I now have work till the end of may and at the age of 50  I might have landed my first feature as DP.  Kieran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Brad Grimmett Posted March 18, 2009 Premium Member Share Posted March 18, 2009 I wish you and your family well and that is your response? Mr. Grimmett, when you have actually DP'd something... something that you actually 'lit' yourself.. you know.. using meters... on anything... anything worthwhile at all.. using actual 'film'... let us know.. because your hack (tv) operator reel does not support the weight you attempt to throw around this forum.  What a jerk... Well now we're getting somewhere. You're finally saying what you mean instead of trying to hide it under thinly veiled compliments, "prayers", and strange responses to posts I didn't make. And the "Mr. Grimmett" thing is a bit childish don't you think? Call me a hack, or a jerk, and make incorrect assumptions about me and my work all you like, just don't act like you're "praying" for me. Disingenuous well wishing and passive aggressive insults are seen through far too easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_Alderslade Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Kieran, congratulations on the feature, thats awesome. Â I know what you mean Andy. While I'm thrilled to be booked this month... that's 'bout it... Looks like I'll spend the summer labeling all my kit.. again... Â Yea for me it deffinetly contributes to those anxieties of being middish-twenties, especially when you don't have any work when you want it, and then again find yourself working your arse off when friends are off on holidays or reunions together... Â I can't help envy people who don't have any ambitions or aspirations, they have a certain freedom about their life. If they get sick of their job, they can always retrain and try something else, or even just uproot, get them selves a bar job in the sun for a while... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Kieran Scannell Posted March 19, 2009 Premium Member Share Posted March 19, 2009 Kieran, congratulations on the feature, thats awesome.    Thanks Andy!  It's not in the bag yet I'm on a short list of 3 apparently and of course I have no track record in features.  I shot a short Docu/drama in Jan. and the production assistant showed a friend of hers what she was up to these day's  and the friend just happened to be a first time director who's script was just green lighted, and he said "that's exactly what I want this film to look like"  I've waited 25 yrs. for someone to say that!  Anyway It would be a dream come true for me. The producers are understandably reluctant to have a DP with no feature  experience coupled with a fist time director ( even though I've ran fairly large crew's on commercials) there worried about  consistency over a 3 to 4 week shoot. The director and I clicked really well and has said he wants me on board but the other  2 DP's are out of the producers stable and are very talented so I guess the money men will ultimately decide my fate.  Kieran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Adrian Sierkowski Posted March 19, 2009 Premium Member Share Posted March 19, 2009 Well Kieran, to paraphrase Jeff Goldblum "God help us we're in the hands of [producers]" Best of luck with it, though! Â And Andy, I know exactly what you mean about people able to uproot and find something else. Hell, I'm not sure I can even ever move out of the city because then pfft, there goes the networking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Rakoczy Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Wow, easy there tiger you need to chilax with your responses. You've tried to flame me on this thread (early on) for your lack of understanding (for want of a better word) of my British satire/humour/sarcasm. Just because you own a film camera gives you no right to talk like that to anyone on this forum.  My website hasn't been updated for at least a couple of years but yet you seem to assume that I come from a digital background...WRONG. I've been working in this business for over 20 years now, starting out as a runner and now after those 20 years consider myself to be a Lighting Cameraman and just for the record, YES i do own and know my way round a F**KING (sorry that's my tourets again) light meter.  As Jesus Quintana said in "The Big Lebowski"....Let me tell you something, pendejo. You pull any of your crazy poop with us ON THIS FORUM AGAIN, you flash YOUR 16mm CAMERA on the lanes, I'll take it away from you, stick it up your ass and pull the **(obscenity removed)** trigger 'til it goes "click."  Spread the peace and love.......Oh and money (in my direction).    Huh? I wasn't speaking to you Rick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael LaVoie Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Not only is there no work but I also get a sense of lost hope. At least in the low low budget film scene, you have no chance of anything you do being accepted at any festival unless you have multiple celebrities in the cast or you've slept with a programmer at the festival. Otherwise, you're not getting in. There's just too many films being made, too many submissions and it's increasing exponentially every year. Festivals are FLOODED now with submissions. Competition is great but this isn't competition. It's clutter. Most of the submissions suck but because of the sheer numbers, programmers aren't bothering to watch the real (non celebrity packed) indie films that are submitted. Even the tiny festivals are suddenly getting slammed. It's a joke that if you want to finance your movie, start your own festival. Â What sucks so much about this is that the extra help of festival screenings to get your movie sold or distributed is next to impossible nowadays. When I went to film school in the mid 90's all you had to do was make a good film. Which is not to suggest that it's easy to do that but nowadays forget about it. Not only do you have to make a killer movie, you have to be your own sales agent, marketing guru and spend more money networking than you did on the film just to get rid of it. I wish I graduated in the 80's or something when everything was still on film. Far less clutter. There's a great new documentary about this called Official Rejection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Rakoczy Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 huh...? I wasn't speaking to you numb nuts. Chill your Own ass! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Keller Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 I'd be curious to hear if people think there's less production, of if the production that there normally is has been down-budgeted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Adrian Sierkowski Posted March 19, 2009 Premium Member Share Posted March 19, 2009 I'd say less. A lot of corporate/industrial has dissipated due to the downturn, and I'd suspect advertising budgets as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Brad Grimmett Posted March 19, 2009 Premium Member Share Posted March 19, 2009 I'd be curious to hear if people think there's less production, of if the production that there normally is has been down-budgeted. According to my own (un-scientific) assessments there is quite a bit less feature production right now. A lot of operators I know that always seem to be working, aren't right now. And most of the ones that are working, are on a TV show or pilot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Rich Steel Posted March 19, 2009 Premium Member Share Posted March 19, 2009 huh...? I wasn't speaking to you numb nuts. Chill your Own ass! Â Â You need therapy, must be all that sun your getting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now