FAQ: ANAMORPHIC LENSES

[Guest User]

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[Leo Anthony Vale]

I would like to make a correction concerning the Todd-AO 35 system.

 

There are two generations.

The first was designed by Richard Vetter for Todd-AO. The focusing system is patanted.

They were manufactured in Japan by NAC, a division of Kowa for Todd-AO.

 

The second generation, which are the high speeds, 24mm T1.6, 35mm T1.4, 55mm T1.4 and 85mm T1.4.

Cinema Products, which was the US distributer of the Canon High Sreeds, bought the Todd-AO 35 name.

These are basicaly the same as the Canon Xtal Express, only with the first generation Canon High Speeds.

 

 

---LV

[Billypot]

Could anyone tell me if teh procedure to do flange testing on an anamorphic lens ? Thank you.

[Laurent Andrieux]

We use squeezed charts for the lens calibration tests.

 

Here's a sample, with, above, the way to put them in the frame. On the left, 5 charts is enough for long focal lengths, on the right, 7 is necessary for short focal lengths (<50 mm) :

 

 

As Max said, you must do the shooting test at two different stop apertures : wide open and closed 1 stop. The focus marks should be different, but remain the same for closest apertures. Remember it's recommended not to work at a wider aperture than T 4.

 

The test has to be shot at 50 times the focal length, printed on positive stock and the print test examined under a binocular magnifying glass.

 

Notice the ellipse will look as a circle on the squeezed positive.

 

Read the two directions and the seven (or five) charts.

 

Use a 50 mm for registration pin and frame test (with no need to print these tests), and a 20 mm for the ground glass and camera FFD.

 

 

 

Thanks to Pierre Coque, Panavision Alga Samuelson, Paris - Vincent Platerier, Mickaël Lemercier, Panavision Marseille France.

[Guest kirsti abernethy]

We use squeezed charts for the lens calibration tests.

Here's a sample, with, above, the way to put them in the frame. On the left, 5 charts is enough for long focal lengths, on the right, 7 is necessary for short focal lengths (>50 mm)

As Max said, you must do the shooting test at two different stop apertures : wide open and closed 1 stop. The marks should be different, but then remain the same for closest apertures. Remember it's recommended not to work at a wider aperture than T 4.

The shot test has to be print on positive stock and the print test examined under a binocular magnifying glass.

Notice the ellipse will look as a circle on the squeezed positive.

Read the two directions and the seven (or five) charts.

Use a 50 mm for registration pin and frame test (with no need to print these tests), and a 20 mm for the ground glass and camera FDD.

 

Hi Laurent, I'm about to test the close focus primo anamorphics out of panavision for a feature in london. i was reading up on anamorphics and came accross your very interesting post!

please could you explain a little more about how you did these tests and what you mean by 'read the two directions and the seven or five charts....'

Did you mean a 50mm for the steady test and a 20mm for the frame leader ('ground glass and camera FDD')?

 

what did you find out from shooting the lenses this way?

 

thanks, :blink:

kirsti (anamorphic beginner)

[Laurent Andrieux]

Hi all,

 

Kristi, I'm very sorry I find your post only now. I was going to give a link to the chart on my site where I just uploaded it with a better quality, since someone else asked me, when I found your post.

 

Did you mean a 50mm for the steady test and a 20mm for the frame leader ('ground glass and camera FFD')?

 

Yes, that's what I ment - sorry for my bad english -

what did you find out from shooting the lenses this way?

 

This is the way the technicians at Panavision France recommend to do. I actually was astonished when last week I went to Panavision Marseille, to find that they still use the same chart I learnt to work with almost 20 years ago. The copy just got a bit bad with years, that's all. The one I posted up here is the 20 years old (and best) one. The man who wrote them was a master in the art of optical craft at Panavision Paris, Pierre Coque, and is retired by now.

 

Here you can download the original chart : http://l.andrieux.free.fr/mire_scope_2.tif

 

But the main element is not that well defined.

 

So they gave me a better copy of it only, that you can download here :

 

http://l.andrieux.free.fr/mire_scope_3.tif

 

You then can make you own chart.

 

Remember that finding out the focus calibration is a matter of comparision. The chart won't give you a figure for your lens' definition.

 

There is a CST chart that allows you to determine definition (still @ 50 times the focal length) but I don't have a good copy of it, and it's expensive to get the original one).

[Adam Paul]

ANAMORPHIC LENSES

 

CLAIRMONT

 

The Clairmont anamorphics aren't necessarily the sharpest lenses in the world, but they are small and light enough to make you think you were just shooting a spherical movie. Clairmont had them built really for steadicam and handheld work. Stopped down, they worked fairly well.

 

I was surprised to find out Blade shot with those lenses. It looked pretty good on the big screen as far as I remember. But it's interesting a newer film, I think 1998, would go with an older design rather than better Panavision stuff.

[Matt Kelly]

Holy wealth of info, Batman! How about the new 6 in the G-series?

[Guest User]

I'm planing to update the page soon, but I'm still waiting on some info. I'll also include the new Hawks V-Lites.

[Guest purplesunrise]

Two serious Pentax users have undertaken the tremendously demanding job of testing the resolving power of variuous Pentax lenses. This is a complicated task with an astonishing number of variables, and conduxting multiple test so that the results are meaningful requires choosing one fixed value for each variable and holding it constant over all tests. :ph34r:

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[davide fois]

Hi everybody,

since you're talking about 35mm Anamorphic lenses here, I was wondering, are there any Anamorphic lenses for 16mm cameras, or the only way is to shoot with 35mm Anamorphic lenses?

Cause I've serached and asked around, but couldn't find anything on the subject, this makes me think that there are no anamorphic lenses built for 16mm. Recently a dop told me that he used the JDC Millennium series because they have a 1.5 squeeze...

 

davide

[Chris Burke]

Hi everybody,

since you're talking about 35mm Anamorphic lenses here, I was wondering, are there any Anamorphic lenses for 16mm cameras, or the only way is to shoot with 35mm Anamorphic lenses?

Cause I've serached and asked around, but couldn't find anything on the subject, this makes me think that there are no anamorphic lenses built for 16mm. Recently a dop told me that he used the JDC Millennium series because they have a 1.5 squeeze...

 

davide

 

 

Search the forum for Hawk V Lite 16. They are purpose built for 16mm, both 2x squeeze and 1.3x squeeze, which is made for Super 16 and 16:9 sensors. they have a 14mm at their widest end. Brand new.

has a film clip of a test shot with an 18mm and a 35mm 1.3x on Super 16. this link, http://www.vantagefilm.com/file/pdf/equipment_41.pdf also has info on lenses.

[davide fois]

Thanks Chris!

[alfredoparra]

what about KINOSCOPE? you dident mentio that lems and I would like to know more about it.

Edited October 1, 2010 by alfredoparra

[TJ Marbois]

still one of the best resources for anamorphic info... :) thanks Mr. Jacoby!

[Laurent Andrieux]

Hello guys,

 

I've been informed that the links I gave above seem to be dead. It's not really the case, the files are still there. The only point is that the tiff files now require .tiff as an extension, not .tif anymore. Therefore please find the proper links : http://l.andrieux.free.fr/mire_scope_2.tiff and http://l.andrieux.free.fr/mire_scope_3.tiff

 

You also can find the files here : http://cinematographie.info/index.php?app=downloads&showcat=22

 

Thanks Neil for advising me.

 

Best to all of you.

[Dustin Supencheck]

I too have been doing research on shooting 16mm anamorphic. Does anyone see a huge issue with shooting with 35mm lenses? I'd like to shoot with the Panavision C-Series lenses to get a very classic anamorphic look, but it's been very difficult to find any information.

 

Obviously shooting some tests before principle photography would be ideal, but I don't know if I'll be able to get the budget to do so. I'd also like to use a 2x anamorphic to get the most drastic effect. Which would lead me to shooting standard 16mm. Leaving me with a native aspect ratio of 2.66:1.

 

I've considered simply leaving it as this aspect ratio. Would this be a huge distribution headache considering it wouldn't fill the entire screen? We will be entering festivals in 2k or 4k so I don't foresee an issue, but I'd like to hear other's opinion.

 

The other option is to crop the sides, but I don't like the idea of loosing that resolution.

 

Thanks in advanced for any tips/advice!

[Chris Burke]

Hawk V-Lite 16 2x is the best option right now. I have heard that Panavision has some 1.5x for S16, although it is just rumor. With a 2.66:1 image, you wouldn't be cropping that much. If you were to use the Hawk lenses, with todays stocks, it would look quite good and you could if you want to, have print dailies or even a photochemical finish.

[Dustin Supencheck]

Plus I just realized the widest panavision lens in c series is 40mm. Not a good lens to get wide landscape shots. If I get the opportunity to shoot tests I will be sure to post.

[Reuel Gomez]

Do any of Panavision's anamorphic lenses produce a cylindrical perspective in the lower focal lengths?

[David Mullen ASC]

What's a cylindrical perspective? Do you mean the stretched bokeh? If so, then all the front-element PV anamorphic primes and zooms do, short or long.

[Reuel Gomez]

I heard that cylindrical perspective was some sort of distortion caused by anamorphic lenses

[Gabriel de Bourg]

What he means is lens distortion that happens horizontally, not vertically (like barrel distortion). Here's a good example of cylindrical distortion:

[Reuel Gomez]

What he means is lens distortion that happens horizontally, not vertically (like barrel distortion). Here's a good example of cylindrical distortion:

 

Exactly.

[David Mullen ASC]

Except that the barrel distortion is not just happening horizontally.

 

It's just normal barrel distortion being stretched out by the 2X expansion when shown a 2.40. A front-element anamorphic prime is like a normal prime with a wide-angle attachment in front, only the increase in view is only happening horizontally. But the side effect is barrel distortion.

 

Anyway, all I'm saying is that this is the first time I've heard the term cylindrical perspective.

 

Yes, wide-angle Panavision anamorphic primes show barrel distortion. Even the 50mm Primo anamorphic, which is a pretty high-quality lens, has a little barrel distortion but the 40mm and 35mm show even more.