Breaking into films

[Phil Rhodes]

the first time they get yelled out they are off in tears to their mamma.

Shouting at people should never be necessary. If you find yourself doing so, it's time for a bit of self-examination. Shouting often happens when people have overlooked problems and kept perhaps less than competent or trustworthy staff around past the point where they should have been let go, or when correctable behaviour has gone uncorrected for too long. This is a management failing just as much as it is a failure of the incompetent, because the resulting unpleasantness has a much more negative effect on other, blameless members of staff nearby than a simple, quiet dismissal.

 

The only circumstances where shouting should happen is:

 

1) If a previously sane and reasonable person suddenly becomes insane and unreasonable, or

2) If there's a safety problem

 

In neither case is the shouting due to anger, it is due to urgency and the need to be insistent and clearly understood, perhaps over background noise. Shouting in anger is the behaviour of someone who is not in control. Failure to be in control of oneself is the greatest possible failure of professionalism. Even Christian Bale apologised for it, which is entirely the respectable thing to do.

 

For the sake of disclosure, I have never been shouted at while working, and I have only ever shouted on a film set twice, both under clause 2 above. On both occasions the shoutee failed to realise what was going on and took offence, one of which resulted in the singular occasion I have ever left a job unfinished - because someone's ego was apparently more important than safety.

 

I have, however, worked in circumstances where the job was made needlessly difficult and unpleasant by the behaviour of a hair-triggered screamer, even though he wasn't screaming at me.

 

P

[Markshaw]

The shouting I have witnessed was also due to excessive noise on set and in the environs. Never due to ego's or attitude.

I must admit I found Bale's explosion fascinating and scary at the same time.

[Luke Lenoir]

I went to film school. I thought it was a total waste of time and money. This was the early early 2000's and the digital boom was just happening.

I shot 8mm, S16, S35, and DVCPRO50. I hated the way the video looked and always went with film. I had to teach myself how to load the camera and process

the film because my teachers stressed shooting video because of the ease of use. I didn't learn anything about how to make a movie. Most of my teachers

were burn-outs with little credit to their name - some even came from the 90's porn industry. There was often yelling, crying, bickering, fighting, etc.

I usually got D's and C's because I never followed the directions. I didn't think there should have been any rules. After all it was art school. I was so

influenced by David Lynch and Scorsese and Russ Meyer and Sam Peckinpah and how they broke boundaries with the medium.

 

What sucks the most about film school are the film kids. Most are pretentious twits with no taste. They talk big and make outrageous claims and give

the same old drivel about how the Bicycle Thief changed their life, when in reality they have no idea how to write creatively

or come up with a genuine idea. They're rich brats with no talent. That's 90% of Hollywood now. I'm sure a lot of them went on to work as PA's getting

coffee and donuts from craft services for the tit-jobs on set. I'm not jaded because of my experience, I just think it's a crock. Every bit of what they

teach in film school can be learned on your own from books, videos, and good old self application.

 

It's always been the same. The self motivated individual steps up and takes what he wants. If you want to be a filmmaker then be a filmmaker. Work a poop

job so you can buy equipment and start making movies. Hone your skills. Get things done. Don't expect things to be handed to you. I am personally really

excited about the dawn of the digital age because it could mean the death of Hollywood. The entrepreneur wins. You may not make $1,000,000 but why

do you need that much money? If you're doing it for the money then go ahead and kill yourself because there's already too many of those types.

 

Another good way to get into the industry is to call up you local studio mechanics and see if they can put you on a call.

Edited October 27, 2011 by Luke Lenoir

[Daniel Jackson]

Sounds like you had a pretty torrid time. It does depend on what school you go to, and how good their teachers are.

[Markshaw]

You obviously had a bad time and I don't mean to slight that. However you cannot assume that EVERY Film School is that bad.

[Brian Drysdale]

But was he necessarily better than any other camera trainees you've worked with?

 

Not really, some don't have any degree at all, although it appears that most camera trainees I've come across these days in the UK (and Ireland) tend to because government encourages a high percentage of people to do degrees.

[Brian Hulnick]

My friend in the UK said that you would need to have a silver spoon dangling out of your mouth to be able to afford to get a degree in film making. Is this true?

[Phil Rhodes]

Not so much a small silver spoon as a large gold ladle and the rest of the 24-carat dinner service to go with it.

 

Back in the day, when I got my degree, you could get government money in the UK to do more or less any form of educational pursuit. Even now it's probably possible to get some sort of very soft financing for a film degree. I'm not sure how worthwhile it actually is to do that, anywhere, and in the UK I could not be more convinced it's a waste of time and money.

 

P

[Sean Elder]

I can tell you from my gluttonous two degrees in "Digital Film and Video Production", that I learned far more from my first tour with my associates degree. My bachelors however, I learned a lot, but it was my own experience and hard lined questions like market trends in Houston or even in Texas, asking about how certain lighting set ups are rigged as apposed to "throwing light at the subject" (No, this was not actually taught, but it is the popular solution with the majority of my former classmates). Questions on pools of light, composition, locations, filters, mood, tone, and even format choices were really not answered to my satisfaction, but I do understand that many schools won't have the privilege of having seasoned industry professionals, Cinematographers (ASC or not), Post Production Specialists, etc. "Film School" is what you make of it, and if you really think about it YOU are PAYING YOUR MONEY to be TRAINED in the ways of the industry. If your school isn't doing that, or if you are unsure; go to your local production company and ask what they are looking for in a recent graduate or a(n)[insert crew position title here]. Make the best of the situation, work for free (length of time is dependent on the reader), and get familiar with the tools that you used to create your art. I went the same route as one of the posters who sounds a bit miffed, but I can assure you if you keep working harder than anyone else in your class or group, people will notice. I spent about 6-7 years between "Film School "Tours"" and met a lot of the same type of people that I met during my second degree. I have had a TON of hardships sent my way both from life kicking my a$$ to classmates sabotaging projects, to getting into tight lipped or even passionate arguments with instructors. At the end of the day you have to conduct yourself as a business and what matters to you is....well what matters to you! You have ideas or clients you want to create for and you have to figure out how to manifest in a sense a product that befits yourself and the client.

 

My 2 cents

 

 

Sean D. Elder

Houston, Texas, USA

(832) 439-8830

 

Dark Sun Film

www.Darksunfilm.com

Darksunfilm@gmail.com

 

http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=29665325

[Freya Black]

In the UK, you are probably better off working hard and trying to get a degree from Oxford or Cambridge if you want to work in a media related field. I suspect your chances would be much higher than if you studied film. In fact I've come across a few jobs lately that weren't even traditional media, where I've been told I wouldn't be considered as my degree was not from a red brick university.

 

If you do study film in the UK you are much better off getting an MA. You really need to get into Beaconsfield (NFTS) but they don't take on many people and there is a charge for just making an application!

You don't however, need a film degree to make an application.

 

Also jobs in the media in the UK are mostly based in London and you would be expected to work for free for a long time to get experience which is difficult if you aren't from a posh family based down south.

 

If you are motivated I'm sure you can do it to some extent but it might be better to just get a job in something that pays and buy yourself a camera and make whatever you like yourself!

 

You are only allowed to do one degree nowadays so you should be careful to pick something that can bring you an income and a future I reckon, unless that's something that's already taken care of and you don't need to be concerned.

 

love

 

Freya

[Brian Hulnick]

So in the UK a degree in film is not enough, it has to be from the "right" university? That's insane.

[Daniel Jackson]

So in the UK a degree in film is not enough, it has to be from the "right" university? That's insane.

 

That blows

[Markshaw]

In the UK, you are probably better off working hard and trying to get a degree from Oxford or Cambridge if you want to work in a media related field. I suspect your chances would be much higher than if you studied film. In fact I've come across a few jobs lately that weren't even traditional media, where I've been told I wouldn't be considered as my degree was not from a red brick university.

 

If you do study film in the UK you are much better off getting an MA. You really need to get into Beaconsfield (NFTS) but they don't take on many people and there is a charge for just making an application!

You don't however, need a film degree to make an application.

 

Also jobs in the media in the UK are mostly based in London and you would be expected to work for free for a long time to get experience which is difficult if you aren't from a posh family based down south.

 

If you are motivated I'm sure you can do it to some extent but it might be better to just get a job in something that pays and buy yourself a camera and make whatever you like yourself!

 

You are only allowed to do one degree nowadays so you should be careful to pick something that can bring you an income and a future I reckon, unless that's something that's already taken care of and you don't need to be concerned.

 

love

 

Freya

 

 

That's a pretty sad state of affairs if you ask me.

[Daniel Jackson]

So how much would a degree in film cost at a University such as Oxford or Cambridge?

[Brian Hulnick]

So how much would a degree in film cost at a University such as Oxford or Cambridge?

 

An arm, a leg and your first born apparently. Those 2 are gonna be uber expensive.

[George Ebersole]

[/size]

Shouting at people should never be necessary. If you find yourself doing so, it's time for a bit of self-examination. Shouting often happens when people have overlooked problems and kept perhaps less than competent or trustworthy staff around past the point where they should have been let go, or when correctable behaviour has gone uncorrected for too long. This is a management failing just as much as it is a failure of the incompetent, because the resulting unpleasantness has a much more negative effect on other, blameless members of staff nearby than a simple, quiet dismissal.

 

The only circumstances where shouting should happen is:

 

1) If a previously sane and reasonable person suddenly becomes insane and unreasonable, or

2) If there's a safety problem

 

In neither case is the shouting due to anger, it is due to urgency and the need to be insistent and clearly understood, perhaps over background noise. Shouting in anger is the behaviour of someone who is not in control. Failure to be in control of oneself is the greatest possible failure of professionalism. Even Christian Bale apologised for it, which is entirely the respectable thing to do.

 

For the sake of disclosure, I have never been shouted at while working, and I have only ever shouted on a film set twice, both under clause 2 above. On both occasions the shoutee failed to realise what was going on and took offence, one of which resulted in the singular occasion I have ever left a job unfinished - because someone's ego was apparently more important than safety.

 

I have, however, worked in circumstances where the job was made needlessly difficult and unpleasant by the behaviour of a hair-triggered screamer, even though he wasn't screaming at me.

 

P

I guess it depends on the crew. I only ever got yelled at by crews from LA. Never a local San Francisco Bay Area crew, save for one director (but he was known for a temper). Rarely have I ever seen a director really lose it on set. Typically he's just trying to get the talent to react or the crew to shut up so he can talk, but then that's usually the AD's job.

 

I had a teamster yell at me, I've seen a couple of directors blow their stacks, I saw the aftermath of a teamster coming to blows with a director on a TV series (the teamster had scars on his cheek), I've seen locals get upset with crews and yell at the gaffers and grips moving cables and camera packages. I've seen tempers flare numerous times.

 

I'm not sure that not yelling is professionalism or not. People get angry. If you do your job, then tempers shouldn't flare. When I say I got yelled at, I usually mean that producer-X wanted to know why I hadn't done job-Y (usually because they hadn't asked, and I hadn't thought of it before hand), so where their voice wasn't raised as such, it was a down dressing and expression of anger.

 

I don't think people should let their tempers get the best of them. But it happens. I can't remember the worst blow up I've ever seen (there's been so many), but one of the most knee-jerk reactions I ever saw was a director storming out of the stage shouting "What the F____ is going on?!". One of the stage managers had hit the intercom for our stage, and called to see if were still filming. The red light was on... duh. The director didn't appreciate it.

 

When I was running video tap (one of my first jobs) on an old 3/4 Umatic, I forgot how to reset the memory on the tape counter to recue the tape. The guy doing slate (the AC) gave this former 18 year old real attitude. Well, needless to say I didn't screw up on the tap again, but he was impatient with my "lack of professionalism" and let me know about it.

 

In film/video it's baptism of fire. It doesn't always need to be that way, but that's the way it is, and, to be honest, it'd be nice to have a coach or mentor with some pro-crew people who were more gentlemanly.

 

Having said that, there are times when you're shooting in bad parts of town when you need your grips, gaffers and other big burly types to exercise attitude and anger with the locals. And, to that extent, maybe throw their egos around the set for any onlookers to think twice about approaching them.

 

Tons of war stories.

 

Truly though, most shoots I've ever been on were relatively calm affairs.

[Brian Hulnick]

What with deadlines and other pressures, tempers are bound to be frayed on occasion, it's only human nature. Secret is not to take it personally and fire back. Let it slide, you may even get an apology afterwards.

[Markshaw]

If you watch any of Ridley Scott's movies. Watch the making ofs and then you'll see what a short tempered director looks like. He takes no prisoners.

[Archie Campbell]

So how much would a degree in film cost at a University such as Oxford or Cambridge?

 

 

An arm, a leg and your first born apparently. Those 2 are gonna be uber expensive.

 

Unfortunately neither of these universities offer an undergraduate film degree. I don't know how it works in the US but not every university will have every course.

[Markshaw]

So, would a Brit be better off studying film in the US rather than the UK?

[Brian Hulnick]

No wonder many Brits come to the US to study.

[Daniel Jackson]

The British Film Industry never really took off did it. Great British movies but made primarily by US studios.

[Adrian Samuals]

The Kings Speech was a great British movie, it even stated that it was financed through the National Lottery Fund.

[Daniel Jackson]

Yes, but just how much was the actual movie British? Crew, full financing, distribution etc.

[Adrian Samuals]

How much of a British production was Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy seeing as it was previously a British TV drama?