Best super 16mm camera under $30,000

[kb1017]

In your opinions what are the best super 16mm cameras for under $30,000, and why? Should i get a nice zoom, or a mediocre zoom and decent prime? What are some good s16 color reversal stocks?

[kb1017]

Someone please help me with this. It is a huge decision for me, and I posted this in the 16mm forum and no one has replied there either.

 

Really appreciate anyones help.

[Nate Downes]

Sounds like you are looking for the A-Minima.

[Jon Rosenbloom]

No, you are not looking for an A-Minima. That's a specialty camera.

 

I'm curious why you would want to buy a camera. But forgetting that, I think an Arriflex is probably the best way to go. I like the Aaton's, but both my AC's are wary of their reliability. Have you looked on eBay, or Mandy.com classifieds? I think you can get something really nice for $20,000. As far as the lens, if you can afford only one, get the Canon 7.8-56mm T2 zoom. Don't waste your time, or compromise the quality of your work, by buying a shitty zoom. There are plenty of producers who will force you into using inferior glass, so why volunteer to do it by putting one in your package?

[kb1017]

I'm curious why you would want to buy a camera.

 

 

I want to buy it for several reasons.

-So my own personal use cannot be restricted

-So I can rent it and my services as a DP out for reasonable prices, as opposed to the astronomical prices by many vendors.

-I think super 16 is a great format for low-budget films and there will be a great demand for it.

 

What have you heard about the Aaton XTR and its reliability. Do you like the Arri SRI or SRII more, and why?

 

Do you know any current DP's that have one or use one often?

 

Thanks for your help.

 

In response to downix, i agree with J-RO that they are a specialty camera

I dont really like the A minima too much, its just not as practical for a wide variety of shoots, and fps. Plus there arent many filmstock options for that camera

[Stephen Williams]

What have you heard about the Aaton XTR and its reliability.  Do you like the Arri SRI or SRII more, and why?

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The choice is a very personal one. The Aaton XTR was designed for super 16mm. The SRI & SRII are just converted. A great deal depends who converted the camera and how much money they saved at that time! Both cameras will need regular servicing, allow USD2000 every 4 years, even with low usage. The Arri will stand rough handeling which is why its the first choice for rental companies. A well maintained XTR is probably quieter and steadier, than an SRII or SRI.

 

Stephen Williams DoP

 

Zurich

 

www.stephenw.com

[Nathan Milford]

You can probably find a first generation (bi-phase) Aaton XTRplus or X0plus for thereabouts. 3-60fps, S16 (field switchable to R16), quiet, and with an AatonCode time code printer built in the gate >8)

 

Beautifully engineered cameras. Works of art on the inside.

 

I think we have a plus in our used sales stock. Ask for Jeff at the number in my signature to get a quote.

[Jon Rosenbloom]

A well maintained XTR is probably quieter and steadier, than an SRII or SRI.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Does the xtr eyepiece flip to the right side of the camera?

[Rik Andino]

Does the xtr eyepiece flip to the right side of the camera?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No not the XTR

But the XTRProd's eyepiece is fully orientable

 

The old Aaton LTRs use to do this

But they were sued by Arri so they had to change it...

Somehow they found a way to incorporate it into the XTRProd 20 years later

[John Pytlak RIP]

The Kodak website has a brief overview of various 16mm cameras, and links to more information:

 

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/16mm/cam...d=0.1.4.9&lc=en

 

As others have said, it's often a matter of personal preference and the extra features needed. Don't overlook the used camera market. "Test Drive" with a rental.

[Nathan Milford]

Somehow they found a way to incorporate it into the XTRProd 20 years later

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Arri's patent expired.

 

Essentially there is a piece of copper wire inserted into the viewfinder arm mechanism, that is excruciatingly difficult to remove, which prevents the viewfinder arm from swinging the whole way round. You could remove it, with great pain, or get a new top-handle assembly or just live with it. >8)

 

- nathan

[Rik Andino]

Arri's patent expired.

 

Essentially there is a piece of copper wire inserted into the viewfinder arm mechanism, that is excruciatingly difficult to remove, which prevents the viewfinder arm from swinging the whole way round. You could remove it, with great pain, or get a new top-handle assembly or just live with it.  >8)

 

- nathan

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You mean you can get an XTRProd viewing system...for an LTR or XTR?

How much do does things run for?

 

Upgradabilty that's neato...that's something you can't do with a DV camera :)

[Nathan Milford]

You mean you can get an XTRProd viewing system...for an LTR or XTR?

How much do does things run for?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, four screws hold the viewfinder on to the body (note: make sure the screws aren't too long as they'll kill the light meter board). All of the viewfinders over the years have the same footprint and it is mainly the same as it was on the LTR, just improvements in materials and logical progressions and evolutions (anti-mist glass/heater element, light trap/iris upgrade, etc). I'm not saying that I'd prefer an LTR viewfinder over a prod viewfinder... but they very similar beasts.

 

A factory fresh OGT-10 viewfinder (Part # 03-750-01) will run you $7,800 USD.

 

- nathan

[Mark Lyon IMPOSTOR]

Just a quick note about the A-Minima. We've had one for a few years, along with an old LTR, and we've found it to be incredibly useful. Time code, timelapese, 1-50 fps, super-stable images, bright viewfinder, and, obviously, light and easy to rig. In real people interview work, the un-threatening nature of the little camera makes it our first choice, even with the 200' mag limitation. Stock availability has not been a limitation at all. Only really an issue if you want to use Fuji--then you'd have to load your own (which we've done with b/w reversal--works great).

 

If you could only afford one lens, I guess it would be the Canon 7-63 or 8-64, but you could get a set of old Zeiss primes (or Illuminas) for less money, I would imagine.

 

Mark Lyon

Mighty Max Films

[greg bobier]

we are also going through the

" we should buy this item " phase

 

mostly for the freeedom to shoot when /as we want

 

any suggestions on where to purchase relable preowned cammera

( arri sr1/2)

 

im a little nervous about ebay ;)

[Rik Andino]

we are also going through the

" we should buy this item " phase

 

mostly for the freeedom to shoot when /as we want

 

any suggestions on where to purchase relable preowned cammera

( arri sr1/2)

 

im a little nervous about ebay  ;)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'd be nervous about ebay too...

They're a bunch of shady characters selling you bad equipment

And even worse than those are the ones who have no idea what they're selling

So they can't ask them any questions to find out about the item

AND THERE ARE NO MONEY BACK GUARANTEES--ergo no protection

 

If you're looking for reputable dealers check out:

 

http://www.cameraspro.com/arri.html

http://www.duallcamera.com/store/index.shtml

http://www.cinematechnic.com/products/sales_cameras.html

http://www.cinevision-ny.com/salesinfo/sales.htm#16mm

http://www.jimon.com/jimon_cameras/jimon.html

http://www.birnsandsawyer.com/cgibin/BIRstore.cgi

http://www.visualproducts.com/store03.asp?ID=31&Cat=17

http://www.mandy.com/1/class2.cfm?to=3

 

These are very good dealers

But of course the cost will exceed what you can find in Ebay

 

If you happen upon a good deal on Ebay (make sure the seller's reputable)

Figure out how much the camera will cost (w. shipping and everything)

Then figure out how much it'll cost you to get it fully serviced...

(Check for the highest price...cause you'll never know)

 

If these cost are cheaper than buying it from a reputable dealer...

Than you've got a deal.

 

Good Luck.

[Rik Andino]

Well, four screws hold the viewfinder on to the body (note: make sure the screws aren't too long as they'll kill the light meter board).  All of the viewfinders over the years have the same footprint and it is mainly the same as it was on the LTR, just improvements in materials and logical progressions and evolutions (anti-mist glass/heater element, light trap/iris upgrade, etc).  I'm not saying that I'd prefer an LTR viewfinder over a prod viewfinder... but they very similar beasts.

 

A factory fresh OGT-10 viewfinder (Part # 03-750-01) will run you $7,800 USD.

 

- nathan

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yeah I knew that you could pull out the viewfinder...it's surprisingly easy...

But I didn't know that the XTRProd viewfinder was compatible with the LTR

 

I figure they'd make it different to prevent folks from upgrading

Rather than buying a new one...like other companies would do.

 

But anyways that's soo cool! :)

 

Anyways catch you later

[greg bobier]

I'd be nervous about ebay too...

They're a bunch of shady characters selling you bad equipment

And even worse than those are the ones who have no idea what they're selling

So they can't ask them any questions to find out about the item

AND THERE ARE NO MONEY BACK GUARANTEES--ergo no protection

 

If you're looking for reputable dealers check out:

 

 

Thanks- exactly what i needed :D

Edited March 29, 2005 by greg bobier

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

> Upgradabilty that's neato...that's something you can't do with a DV camera

 

Yes, you can - I bought a VF-15 for my DVC-200.

 

Phil

[Frank DiBugnara]

I have my SRII super 16 package on sale at Isaia and Company. The website is www.isaia.com and mine is item #915 under 16mm cameras.

 

Prior to my purchase, the camera was owned by only one other owner: Panavision Canada. (It still has the Panavision logo over the viewfinder). The package is in excellent shape--I kept it on a good maintenance schedule.

A very valuable feature I fell in love with is that along with the super16 conversion Panavision did, they added the SR3 viewing system which is significantly brighter than an SR2 converted to super16 with the original viewing system.

 

Feel free to email me with any questions at frank@veritaspictures.com

 

Good luck with your purchase.

[kb1017]

Is it the French or German motor model that you have for your SR-II?

 

Also, thanks to all for your replies.

[Rik Andino]

There is no French-made motor model of the Arri SRII.

They all have German made motors.

 

The French-made motor was only found in the early Arri SR-I cameras

I think it was in all model below the model serial #60900

Anything from serial # 60901 has the newer German-made motor.

 

& the SRII starts I think from serial # 63180 (if I'm not mistaken).

[pigdog]

for the money i go for the AATONS, i am an experiancesd aaton user and i drived my cameras for days on ends and it has not failed me in rough conditions, i love the fact that it is comfortable to use and easy to load, easy to maintain, ok my aaton is an old timer of an LTR54 and LTR7, these bodies are reliable if you dont need anything facny, i would rather you buy good lenses to go with the aatons.