Does the short festival circuit even do anything?

[Justin Hayward]

Since when did you have to have a good script to be successful?

 

You don't, but if people spent as much time on the script as they do trying to find money, we would all benefit with better movies :) Also, people squander that hard sought budget when they cut all those unnecessary scenes that they should have cut from the script. I've seen people cut 30 minutes out of a two hour movie which added up to about a week and a half of shooting. That's a lot of wasted money. I just get tired of people complaining that the only thing stopping them from a successful film career is money. Then you read their script and realize they've hardly put any work in the most critical part of the process. I've seen guys spend hours and days on the phone searching for actors and investors, but won't sit down and rewrite a glaring problem with their script. It makes no sense to me.

 

Writing is the cheapest part, but I find it's also the hardest and, for some reason, the most ignored while frantically trying to find money. Can you tell this is a pet peeve of mine? :D

[Adrian Sierkowski]

lol I don't disagree at all; but honestly I have noticed an inverse proportion of script goodness to money finding. Perhaps that's why we have Sharknado 5. . .

[Max Field]

 

You'd have better luck predicting the winning lotto numbers. If there was a "formula" everyone would us it.

 

R,

Alright but... what's the short?

[Adam Frisch FSF]

Depending now hat kind of films you want to make, but if you want to go down the commercial route and make movies that have decent budgets and appeal to a broader base, then you need to understand the mechanism that makes those movies fundable. Just like writing a hit song, a script or a story needs a hook. Something you can hang your hat on, something you can summarize in "25 words or less", to quote The Player. Like it or not, but that's how ideas get money and how ideas get made into film. Sure, we might all enjoy the movie that doesn't have any of this, but they also get progressively harder to fund as you move away from that. I would recommend to read High Concept: The Don Simpson story. There might be nothing there you like or want to emulate, in fact it might repulse you, but understand that the same principles are still in play today: High concept or a "hooky" idea or premise, is how films get made.

 

Great example is the short Bag Man I mentioned previously that got my friends their first film. The premise is simple: what if a poor inner city kid finds a bag full of weapons from the future under his bed? And he wasn't supposed to and now someone is coming back from the future to get it back? That triggers the imagination. It's high concept. And it gets the money men excited.

[Tyler Purcell]

Sorry Tyler, I'm going to call that comment pretty much ridiculous. We can't have young people coming on here and taking that comment seriously.

Well, every successful filmmaker knows the formula, that's why they're successful.

[Justin Hayward]

Well, every successful filmmaker knows the formula, that's why they're successful.

"Nobody knows anything... not one person in the entire motion picture field knows for a certainty what's going to work. Every time out it's a guess and, if you're lucky, an educated one." - William Goldman, Adventures in the Screen Trade

[Guest]

Well, every successful filmmaker knows the formula, that's why they're successful.

 

 

Again, what are you talking about? Has Spielberg had commercial failures? Yes, he has.

 

Has EVERY studio in Hollywood produced a string of mega budget bombs in the last five years? Yes, of course.

 

Tyler, what do you know that the execs at Disney, SONY, WB, Universal, and Paramount do not know?

 

They should be paying you 50, 000, 000.00 a year for your, "formula."

 

Come on man.

 

R,

[Max Field]

Well technically a formula doesn't always guarantee a 100% success rate, it could just decrease potential failure.

[Tyler Purcell]

Again, what are you talking about? Has Spielberg had commercial failures? Yes, he has.

The formula has nothing to do with being a commercial success. It has to do with how to make your movie and get it seen by audiences.

 

Everyone I've ever met in the industry knows the formula like the back of their hand.

[Guest]

Everyone I've ever met in the industry knows the formula like the back of their hand.

 

 

Well gee I have no idea what it is, and I've made 5 feature films, and you've made zero.

 

What is the explanation for this?

 

All five films I've made had 180 degree different finance structures and distribution plans. Formula? What formula?

 

R,

[Phil Rhodes]

Richard, I think that given a few million units of currency most of us could go and make a feature film. The question is what you then do with it, a subject we keep returning to.

 

I have no interest in making feature films because... well... what's the point?

 

My thesis here has always been, and remains, that there is absolutely no point whatsoever in making either short subjects or feature films unless you are a very experienced, very established film producer, other than fun. Fun is a perfectly valid reason to do it, but know it's for fun.

 

What's important is that we don't encourage people to start trying to make a business out of it, because they will very, very certainly fail, and waste more money than most people can afford to lose.

[Guest]

They can be hard to sell very true.

 

R,

[Miguel Angel]

I think that if you're smart enough about the subject and make a good movie with a few bucks, let's say 20K, with very few locations, a couple of actors and that movie looks great you can sell it very well.

 

Sundance is full of movies like those.

 

Have a good day.

[Tyler Purcell]

Well gee I have no idea what it is, and I've made 5 feature films, and you've made zero.

Does it matter? I learned the formula from very successful people, friends of mine who've been doing this longer then either one of us.

 

Honestly, even though I have desire to make features, I won't just make junk for the sake of making something.

[Guest]

Ok well, as I said before Tyler, execs at all the major studios would find your thoughts most interesting.

 

R,

[Tyler Purcell]

Ok well, as I said before Tyler, execs at all the major studios would find your thoughts most interesting.

Umm, I've talked with many of them about it, they're like "yea kid we already know those things".

 

Everyone in the know, has heard of the formula, it's just a guide, it doesn't mean you'll make any money.

[Justin Hayward]

Umm, I've talked with many of them about it, they're like "yea kid we already know those things".

 

Everyone in the know, has heard of the formula, it's just a guide, it doesn't mean you'll make any money.

 

Wait... :blink: So, what's the formula for and why are studios following it if it doesn't mean they'll make any money?

[Phil Rhodes]

you can sell it very well.

 

How, exactly?

 

I hate to sound like a stuck record, but every time someone comes out with this, someone else needs to step in with a heavy dose of realism.

 

The channels into which feature films are sold are very tightly controlled by people with enormous financial interests. There is no shortage of product. Unknown people will be instantly rejected in all cases, for no reason other than the buyer's confidence in a known quantity, and this is practical because there is so much oversupply of product. Personal recommendations are the norm, and that's a recommendation from someone to whom you will be a competitor, so you'd better be very good friends with someone.

 

Personal connections, or massive luck, which is more or less the same thing, are required. It's irresponsible to promote the idea that this is open to most people. It absolutely isn't.

 

The quality of the production is almost irrelevant.

[Miguel Angel]

 

How, exactly?

 

I hate to sound like a stuck record, but every time someone comes out with this, someone else needs to step in with a heavy dose of realism.

 

The channels into which feature films are sold are very tightly controlled by people with enormous financial interests. There is no shortage of product. Unknown people will be instantly rejected in all cases, for no reason other than the buyer's confidence in a known quantity, and this is practical because there is so much oversupply of product. Personal recommendations are the norm, and that's a recommendation from someone to whom you will be a competitor, so you'd better be very good friends with someone.

 

Personal connections, or massive luck, which is more or less the same thing, are required. It's irresponsible to promote the idea that this is open to most people. It absolutely isn't.

 

The quality of the production is almost irrelevant.

 

 

For starters, if you have a good looking product which is actually good you can sell it to:

- Airlines

- Local TVs

- Aggregators

- Netflix (if you happen to be persistent)

 

And although this is not selling, you can project it in cinemas too if you're willing to negotiate a fee and etc.

 

You only have to go to the different film festivals and be really good at selling your product, at the end of the day, if you have talked to 100 people, at least, 1 will say yes ;) and there you go.

 

I have a couple of friends who have done it very successfully.

 

Regarding the quality of the product, it helps if it is good, sounds well and looks well too ;)

 

Have a lovely day.

[Justin Hayward]

 

 

For starters, if you have a good looking product which is actually good you can sell it to:

- Airlines

- Local TVs

- Aggregators

- Netflix (if you happen to be persistent)

 

And although this is not selling, you can project it in cinemas too if you're willing to negotiate a fee and etc.

 

 

I have a couple producer friends that recently went this route, but it took a few years and loads of hustling. Certainly not quitting their day jobs.

[Miguel Angel]

I have a couple producer friends that recently went this route, but it took a few years and loads of hustling. Certainly not quitting their day jobs.

 

 

Well, nobody talked about getting rich with a 20K self-sold (does that make sense?) movie! :D :D

 

Phil said that it was impossible to sell a product, it is not! :D

[Justin Hayward]

 

 

Well, nobody talked about getting rich with a 20K self-sold (does that make sense?) movie! :D :D

 

Phil said that it was impossible to sell a product, it is not! :D

 

And I'm talking about a movie that cost a lot more than 20K. So to your point, it might be worth it if you can keep your budget that low and still make something sellable. But it's a hustle. No doubt.

[Phil Rhodes]

It's impossible absent circumstances that most people aren't in, which is the point.

 

If you are in a situation where you can sell a movie, you will know that.

 

If this is in any way an uncertain issue in your mind, you are certainly not in a position to do it.

 

 

My understanding of this is that effectively all films are put into production knowing exactly where they will be sold, and how much for. Anything else is commercial suicide.

 

P

[Miguel Angel]

 

And I'm talking about a movie that cost a lot more than 20K. So to your point, it might be worth it if you can keep your budget that low and still make something sellable. But it's a hustle. No doubt.

 

 

It is definitely a hustle, I agree with you!

 

 

It's impossible absent circumstances that most people aren't in, which is the point.

 

If you are in a situation where you can sell a movie, you will know that.

 

If this is in any way an uncertain issue in your mind, you are certainly not in a position to do it.

 

 

My understanding of this is that effectively all films are put into production knowing exactly where they will be sold, and how much for. Anything else is commercial suicide.

 

P

 

 

If it were me I wouldn't start a film if I didn't know that I was going to be able to sell it, where and how.

I think that people who know those things are the successful ones and they make products which have a route and are catered for that route.

[Justin Hayward]

It's impossible absent circumstances that most people aren't in, which is the point.

 

 

 

But anyone can put themselves in the circumstances you're referencing. It just takes time. Sometimes 5 years, sometimes 10, sometimes more. My producer friend that recently made and sold a movie has been working in the industry from assistant to production manager for about 17 years. She came from a tiny town with no money and no film connections at all. But she worked and learned and recently produced and sold a movie. It's not impossible if it's something you really want to do. But like anything, it takes perseverance.