What does the "AR" of Angenieux AR lenses stand for?

[Larry Miles]

I apologize if this has been covered previously but if it has I could not find the thread.

 

What does the "AR" of Angenieux AR lenses refer to, and which Angenieux lenses are AR? Specifically, is the Angenieux 12-240 an AR lens? Thank you.

[David Mullen ASC]

Maybe the designer was a pirate?

[Larry Miles]

Thank you, David, I hadn't considered that.

 

The specific reason why I'm asking is that I recently purchased a Birns and Sawyer Angenieux AR 2x telezoom with an Arri standard mount. It in fact does fit into an Arri standard adapter but my Angenieux 17.5-70mm lens, with an Arri std mount, does not fit into its other side.

[Max Field]

"Shots poppin' out the AR"

-Robert Shmurda

 

Or in your case, into the AR.

 

 

Given the telezoom thing, maybe it could mean "aberration reduction"?

[Larry Miles]

Does it simply mean Arri? I believe the AR designation on Kern lenses refers to the coating.

 

Does anyone know if an Angenieux 12-240 Arri std mount will fit into the telezoom? If you believe it will, do you know why my Angenieux 17.5-70 Arri std mount does not?

[Dom Jaeger]

Can you post photos?

 

I don't know about an AR code with Angenieux. If it's on an Arri mount 2x extender maybe it refers to "Arri", or maybe it means "Anti-Reflective" like on Kern lenses, to describe the coating. Is the extender made by Angenieux? Angenieux used lots of codes to refer to the lens design (B, R, P, L, Y etc) but I've never heard of an AR one.

 

Some lenses won't fit on extenders because the optics interfere - the rear element of the lens needs to be recessed into the mount by a certain amount - so check that your zoom clears the extender optics.

[Larry Miles]

Thank you, Dom. Attached are the photos.

[Dom Jaeger]

OK, well it looks to me like the Telezoom extender has what's called a universal mount which attaches to the back of older 35mm Angenieux zooms like the 25-250. The extender is missing the lock-ring that would normally sit behind that front flange and lock the unit to the back of the zoom. What you did was remove the Arri mount and replace it with the extender.

 

This is a newer version from a Cooke 18-100:

 

It's possible "Angenieux AR" refers to the first generation 25-250, before the HP and HR.

 

So I don't think it would work with that 12-240 unfortunately.

 

Though I'm curious what the O-L lock ring in the middle of the extender does?

[Phil Rhodes]

Hazarding a guess here, but is it the macro adjustment, as on an ENG lens, or just a way of adjusting back focus (which is much the same thing?)

[Dom Jaeger]

I've never seen a macro or back-focus adjustment ring on a cine focal extender.. more likely to be a lock ring (O - open, L - lock). Maybe it unscrews to allow different mounts to be fitted to the back?

[Larry Miles]

The O-L refers to Open/Lock. The front piece, the one on top of the telezoom in the fifth picture that prevented an Arri Standard mount lens from being fitted into it, is removable. Once removed, my Angenieux 17.5-70 with an Arri Standard mount fit, however the O/L lock did not keep it in place. The removable front piece has a tab that fits into a slot in the telezoom which allows it to be locked. Perhaps the Angenieux AR 25-250 has the same tab?

 

Also, although it fit, the 17.5-70 is not in focus when used with the telezoom. I have yet to experiment with sliding it so that it's not fully pushed in, but I'm doubtful that will work.

[Davo McConville]

Hey Larry, did you ever figure out things around this lens / adapter?

We're trying to fit a 12-240mm Angeniuex in Arri Bayonet mount to the Birns and Sawyer Arri S mount extender.

And the bayonet wings are stopping it. Is there a simple way to remove the wings from the lens do you know? Thanks!

[Larry Miles]

I was told by Steve at Du-All here in New York that the 'AR' stands for anti-reflective coating.

Specifically to Davo: I in no way claim to be anything close to an expert on this but my understanding is that a lens in an Arri Bayonet lens mount will not fit into an Arri Standard camera mount, precisely because of those wings, which are usually machined as part of the lens housing. I believe you would need an Arri Standard to Arri Bayonet lens adapter, which may not exist, since except for those wings, these mounts are the same, including the same depth.

Unfortunately, you may need to either re-house the lens into an Arri standard mount, or find a different mount extender with the appropriate adapters, which is how I solved the problem. In other words, my lens is in Arri standard, my extender is in an Eclair mount, and my camera is an Aaton with an Aaton mount. Thus I purchased an Arri to Eclair adapter to fit the lens into the extender, and an Eclair to Aaton adapter to fit the the extender (with the lens and its adapter) into the camera. I have yet to test this set up for light loss.

[Dom Jaeger]

Bayonet mount lenses will not fit in a Standard mount. The other way round works (since Arri designed the Bayonet mount later and made it so that the earlier Standard mount lenses could still be used), but if you have a Bayonet mount zoom you need a Bayonet mount extender. Or a PL mount extender and a Bayonet to PL adapter.

There is no Bayonet to Standard mount adapter.

[Pablo Paniagua Baptista]

I'm looking for a extender with arri B or PL mount.
Can anyone recommend a brand or model that fits the angenieux 12-240mm?

thanks!

[M Joel W]

On 3/14/2019 at 10:58 AM, Pablo Paniagua Baptista said:

I'm looking for a extender with arri B or PL mount.
Can anyone recommend a brand or model that fits the angenieux 12-240mm?

thanks!

This thread is old enough that you likely have your answer by now, but I own this combination and figured I would chime in.

The above photos don't reflect what I own. The photos seem to have the base of the Arri standard mount removed from a zoom (at the "universal mount" Dom mentions, I suppose) and the universal mount to Arri mount component is attached to the extender instead.

My adapter and lens both have Arri standard mounts, nothing unusual. So that one looks like it's been taken apart differently, at the universal mount rather than the standard mount, I'd guess?

For me, the adapter and lens attach together just fine and rather surprisingly seem to cover S35. The lens is incredibly slow but appears to have infinity calibrated correctly and it's pretty fun how relatively small it is. I just bought a zoom crank for it, too...

I have also used a second 12-240mm that had been converted to Arri Bayonet mount and the metal ring around the rear element was removed, allowing it to fit in a generic Bayonet mount extender (I think I was using a Colcine/Optex). The Bayonet adapter I was using had a much larger rear element but performance and coverage seem worse here. Edges are very soft and I saw a hint of vignetting on S35.

But the above combination works fine. The Birns and Sawyer Angenieux AR 2x telezoom (co-branded French and American and made in Japan, it seems) works with the 12-240mm just fine from what I can tell, at least if you like really slow, really soft lenses. I think Larry bought one that had a universal mount adapter already attached to it. With that removed, it should work. 

Which seems weird, but then again my 12-240mm had a macro tube attached to it when it arrived and seemed to be focusing inside itself. ?

Edited December 17, 2019 by M Joel W

[ANDRES DAVID SEQUEDA RIVAS]

 

Greetings Larry .. I have been researching about vintage lens; their mounts, in different formats.  and its possible use of modern cameras for digital cinema with different sensor sizes I have the answer ... That teleconverter is for Angeniux 16mm / super 16mm lenses, not for 35mm lenses. I think the acronym AR that A = Auto R = Distance reference. You don't need a rear focus ring.  I have that teleconverter with Angeniux 12-120 lens That is being restored. I still don't do the field tests. It should work with cameras with the micro sensor size 4/3 APS-C corresponding to 16mm / super 16mm. I hope I could collaborate.