Bell and Howell 16mm Filmo questions

[Philip Forrest]

How long of a focal length are you looking to shoot? Inexpensive and good quality lenses are available up to 152mm or 6". 

Phil Forrest

[Patrick Cooper]

On 3/29/2020 at 8:26 AM, Philip Forrest said:

How long of a focal length are you looking to shoot? Inexpensive and good quality lenses are available up to 152mm or 6". 

Phil Forrest

50mm for the time being. Though I do have a very nice Canon FD 50mm already! There was a 50mm C mount lens on eBay going for over $1000 though that was an f0.95. Though I came across another 50mm with a more modest maximum aperture selling for around $800. Not what I'd call inexpensive.

Actually, a 150mm would be nice to have too at some point. I guess it would make more sense to use a cine lens for 150mm focal length (rather than an SLR lens) as generally, one would use that kind of focal length for far away / distant subjects where infinity focus may be needed.

Edited March 30, 2020 by Patrick Cooper

[Philip Forrest]

50mm is a bit of an intermediate focal length between the standard 25/75 kit. They are out there and certainly not all as expensive as you've seen. Look for Schneider Xenon, Cine-Nikkor, Cine-Velostigmat, Cine-Raptar, Cine-Anastigmat.  Those manufacturers are Schneider, Nikon, Wollensak, and Kodak. Zeiss, Fujinon, Canon, Taylor Hobson, Cooke, Kowa, Bausch & Lomb, Pentax (Cosmicar), Elgeet (Navitar), Yashica and others. Lots of good FSU leses as you know from using a K3.

Phil Forrest

[Simon Wyss]

50 mm or two inches is my favourite focal length with 16mm cinematography. We have everything here, triplets, four-glass, five-glass, six elements designs, even seven. Prices ought to be according, like $120 for a triplet. A very interesting four-glass design is the Petzval evergreen. It has been rethought and recalculated innumerable times, the Kodak Cine-Ektar 50, f/1.6 is such a candidate. Razor sharp in the center, sharp all over when stopped down to f/4 and beyond, a lens with character

[Philippe Lignieres]

Unless you absolutely want to do EVERYTHING with one camera, the filmo 70 (DR is the best in my opinion) is mostly a camera for low focal lengths, because precise focusing always requires a little maneuver which is not always the most practical. While the shorter focal lengths allow easily the use of the hyperfocal. The available viewfinders are 10mm/12.5/13/17/20/25/40/50/70/100 and 150mm. As mentioned above, this is a very handy camera with primes, not with zoom lenses. Possibility to make multiexposure too.  It is a fantastic camera, with a side pressure plate, the only spring loaded camera to have this technology.  On the contrary, if you are looking for the use of tele, the K3 that you own (to stay in the same price range) is very practical for that, because it is reflex. And with an M42 mount, all the long focal length still lenses are at your disposal.

https://krasnofilmoandco.wordpress.com/filmo70dr/

 

[Simon Wyss]

8 hours ago, Philippe Lignieres said:

camera, with a side pressure plate, the only spring loaded camera to have this technology

 

Désolé, Philippe,

but there are many 16-mm. spring driven cameras which have an active lateral film guidance. It’s just best visible with the Filmo 70.

[Roger Burke Hawkins]

The B&H filmo was the standard US Army field camera in Vietnam where I was a photo detachment commander with the 221st Signal Company. The following film was put together from 1000 ft that I shot while documenting the Pleiku Mike Force: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBZljoV_sVI. Mike Force was a special ops unit composed of US Special Forces, Aussies from the AATTV (Australian Army Training Team Vietnam) Montagnard tribesmen, and ethnically Chinese Nungs. I had come to the 221st from the Pentagon HQ of DASPO (Department of the Army Special Photographic Office) where I was spoiled by using finely engineered German Arriflex cameras. However, the windup filmo was better suited to a jungle environment with no access to electrical plugs for recharging a battery belt. Some of this footage was used as "B roll" in the History Channel production "Suicide Missions: MACV SOG - Behind Enemy Lines. Trust me when I say that this YouTube material converted from National Archive preview copies on unrefrigerated Army film stock is nowhere near the quality of the originals.

[Philip Forrest]

That's great footage, Roger. Thanks for your service. I was a Navy combat photographer with the Seabees during our initial invasion of Iraq and a year after. Did a deployment to Fallujah in the fall of 2004. Good to see another military cameraman here.

Phil Forrest

[Michael Leake]

I understand NOT putting a heavy zoom lens on a Filmo 70 turret series, But people do. What would be an acceptable way to install a zoom lens on a series 70. I have seen turret plugs for the 70 series on eBay. They seem only to restrict the turret from turning and NOT add any structural support for the turret with a heavier lens.  What modification would allow the heavier zoom lens to be installed.

Mike Leake

[Michael Leake]

Thanks.

[Frank Wylie]

11 minutes ago, Michael Leake said:

I understand NOT putting a heavy zoom lens on a Filmo 70 turret series, But people do. What would be an acceptable way to install a zoom lens on a series 70. I have seen turret plugs for the 70 series on eBay. They seem only to restrict the turret from turning and NOT add any structural support for the turret with a heavier lens.  What modification would allow the heavier zoom lens to be installed.

Mike Leake

I have seen the turret removed and a solid plate installed in it's place with a single lens port.  The turret lock plug should work for all but the largest lenses, and if it is that large, you should look into a cradle that bolts to the bottom of the camera and provides an adjustable lens support...

[Michael Leake]

Thanks Frank.

I will probably build a platform cradle to support the heavier lens(SOM Berthiot pan-cinor 17-85mm zoom lens with the side bypass viewer)  A fixed turret is also a very good idea.

ML

[Philip Forrest]

The Filmo 70E is a C mount camera without a turret. It is rather like the 70 (first version) but with the later 8-64f/s speed governor. The shutter plate is a very stout piece of aluminum but is not interchangeable with any Filmos with a turret, due to a slight change in where the four mounting screws sit.

The turret locks ONLY work on specific cameras, namely the 70HR and 70KRM, due to those being the only models with the threaded hole for the turret lock. If you wanted, you could find a HR/KRM shutter plate with the threaded hole (make sure to get the dampener as well) and transfer the whole shutter to a camera like a 70DE or 70DR, but there may be differences in the thickness of the HR/KRM shutter plate due to the presence of the dampener. The Pan-Cinor mentioned is not a very heavy lens like the Angenieux 12-120. The only real problem with putting a heavy lens on is that it can physically turn the turret while shooting and you can't see the image decentering while it's wandering south. 

Either machining, stamping or 3D printing (even carving from wood) a cradle to hold the whole camera steady with the provision to add support rods (like a dovetail attachment), would be the best way to make this happen without modifying the camera. There is a very rare cradle for a HR/KRM out there somewhere. Bell & Howell made at least one and I've seen a photo of it under a KRM with a 400ft magazine on the back. It's meant to hold a motor though, so it's big, but it's the right piece of unobtanium for the job.

Phil Forrest

[Charlie Peich]

Looks like someone made a lens support....

.https://www.ebay.com/itm/185017981152?hash=item2b13ee58e0:g:cuQAAOSwrnRhHpJU

[Frank Wylie]

You could probably rig up a good lens support with off the shelf matt box rods and brackets made by SmallRig and others. 

No need to reinvent the wheel!

[Simon Wyss]

On 3/19/2020 at 10:27 PM, Simon Wyss said:

from model 70-D on you can lock the release by a push-in knob on the side.

Was wrong on that. The push-in knob came in 1951 with the 70-DL. Today I have found a special contraption with a 70-D, a switch for ordinary operation as long as you hold down the release button and continuous operation locked. To halt the mechanism you turn the switch lever on the rear of the front bulge and push in the release button once more which brings it back up.

Does anybody know this?

Edited February 15 by Simon Wyss

[Samuel Berger]

On 3/19/2020 at 1:18 AM, Simon Wyss said:

There is an alignment gauge on ebay from time to time. Do buy one, they make it possible to frame and focus down to an inch in front of the lens. Victor and Paillard-Bolex had a critical focusing system, too. No known rackover for Victor

Is it possible to clean the ground glass of the critical focuser? My new-to-me 70-DR has dust on it.

[Simon Wyss]

The grainy surface belongs to the prism that’s critically set. To reach to it you need to unscrew the mounting ring on the magnifying elements. If you attempt to do that yourself, take care.

Most often the lenses are dirty, not the prism. The shiny front surface of the prism is accessible.

[Samuel Berger]

6 hours ago, Simon Wyss said:

Most often the lenses are dirty, not the prism. The shiny front surface of the prism is accessible.

It might be. I'm not happy with this camera. My 70-DR from 6 years ago is much, much nicer. It was new old stock. Too bad it's in storage in Albuquerque.

[Simon Wyss]

Cameras that offer a critical NON-REFLEX focusing finder

35 mm. Bell & Howell Standard 2709, Bell & Howell Eyemo 71-CA and younger models on focusing alignment gauge, Bourdereau Cinex, Caméréclair, Debrie Parvo L, Mitchell, and more

9½ mm. Paillard-Bolex H, ETM P (no rackover base known for both models)

16 mm. Bell & Howell Filmo 70-D and younger models on focusing alignment gauge, Paillard-Bolex H plus rackover accessory, ETM P, Keystone K-56 Executive (Kodak 50-ft magazine), Fearless, Mitchell, Maurer, Nord, Victor 3-4-5, Bach Auricon Pro-600, Auricon Super 1200

Double-Eight. Bell & Howell Filmo Eight Turret on focusing alignment gauge, Paillard-Bolex H, Cinekon Eight, Sankyo 8-R/RT, Zeiss-Ikon Movikon 8 aslant (direct view of image on film), Pentacon AK 8, Specto 88, Arco CR-8, Arco Eight 803 A, Canon 8-T, Bauer 8 and 88 with insert prism; prisms useable with many more cameras. Eumig C 3 view of image on film after lid modification

DS-8. Only after-market conversions