Anthony Schilling

Very cool Nicholas, I really like what you are doing with the ultrapan format! @Geoffrey- A tungsten balanced film is easily corrected to daylight balanced by using an orange (85 or 85B) filter. All super 8 cameras have this filter built in, however when you filter a stock for daylight you loose 2/3rds of a stop. For example 200T unfiltered is rated at 200ASA under tungsten light but when you filter for daylight the effective ASA is 125. 125ASA can be very useful in certain daylight conditions. A daylight balanced stock can be filtered for tungsten balance with a blue (85A) filter in which you also loose 2/3rds of a stop. Since daylight films are generally slower, loosing 2/3rds is often not useful. For example 50D is only 32ASA if filtered to tungsten. 200T filtered for daylight with a 125ASA is still very useful, but 50D filtered for tungsten at 32ASA is not.

The 50D cart does not have a filter notch, so inserting the cart removes the filter from the path automatically.

If you are shooting at night with 500T, there is really no need to worry about what the camera is reading. Unless you are in a brightly lit stadium or using a light kit, when it comes to existing light at night you will need all the exposure you can get, even with a 500ASA film. If your camera could read the film as 500ASA, the aperture will still be wide open. Since it will be wide open when metering at 250ASA as well, it won't make any difference. The camera doesn't change the actual speed of the film, only how much light it will allow it and you will need all of it. 200T works really well in daylight, but you could also try some 50D. It is a little finer grain than 200T and will give you a better f-stop in bright sun.

Spectra Film and Video in LA

I would agree that the white dust specs on neg are more distracting than reversal. And I love projecting too, but in the age of digital sharing projecting feels a lot more reclusive these days. For grain I'd say V3 50D is on par or slightly better than K40 or 100D. I was doing some grain reduction for a while, but stopped because I find the 50D/200T grain to be just right. Watiching it on a Bluray and flat screen is actually pretty awesome. I would have called it blasphemy 5 years ago, but enjoy watching S8 on a flat screen TV just as much (or maybe a little more) than projecting.

From what i've seen and heard, i wouldn't bother with the 200D. And since i can scan my own negative S8 films now, I have no interest in reversal films especially at a premium price. I can get just as much color from the V3 50D if I want but with a lot more dynamic range. I know the cost of scanning is what keeps people looking to reversal, but there are more and more cheaper options for scans and scanners these days. The head room that you have with V3 stocks opens up a whole new creative palate in terms of doing your own color grading. Most S8 neg samples out there look closer to the raw images in order to show off the dynamic range, but there are so many different directions you can go. And it's really exciting to do, as to where reversal film in the digital realm is more of a mild disappointment.

I think it looked a lot like the 1978 CBS "Wookie Christmas" special

Looks like processing is included but translates to $55USD per roll.

You can only develope the K40 as a B&W at this point (at places that will prosess it) so the filter won't matter much. If you shot the 64T in daylight on the tungston setting, it will have a heavy blue cast. The internal 85 filter corrects tungston balanced films to daylight conditions. The 100D is a daylight balanced film and lacks a filter notch, so it will automatically disable the filter.

The 50D and 200T will work fine in a 40/160 camera. Although it will overexpose the film by 1/3rd stop, it's actually a good thing for S8 because a little over exposure on a negative can tighten up grain and make the colors pop a little more. What I do is use my cameras meter to take readings and set my exposure manually. The negatives can't be projected of course, but have tons of headroom for digital editing.

The exact same thing happens with my 481 macro. First time was a few years ago, whacked the side out of frustration, just like you did, and it worked fine for 5 more years. But in the last year I've had to tap start the light meter twice. I don't really see it as a big issue. If the camera starts to be too troublesome I'd hunt down another 481M, since it has to be the most feature packed, compact camera with great optics.

I used to record live music on seperate audio and film with Super 8. I would let sound roll through the whole set and stagger 2 cameras running the whole time. Matching the footage and sound wasn't that hard but sync would not hold up for no more than 20 seconds. I had to do a little audio stretching and film cutting but it worked out very well. If you're doing short dialog scenes it should be pretty easy to eyeball and nudge frame by frame untill it's exact. The problem you will run into is camera noise on the audio.

If you want to work with sync audio the way you speak of then you will need this http://www.logmar.dk/ The older cameras don't run at perfect speed for audio.

For me it's also "mechanical vs digital". There is a very tangible approach to shooting film that I don't get from shooting video. With film, I'm capturing light onto a physical object with a set of mechanical choices that I control. With a specific set of combinations, I create a moving picture one solid frame at a time ranging from very rapidly to very slowly. Mind you i have never shot digital with an industry grade camera like Alexa or RED, but when I do shoot video it does not resemble photography to me at all.

I recently saw a boxed ikonoskop package on Ebay at a very tempting price, but i don't think it was that cheap. I love S16 and want to use it, but have too much invested in S8 at the moment. I kind of agree with Matthew on cameras out there. Most everything that's affordable is a boat anchor of an ARRI SR whatever. It' usually being sold by someone that hasn't used it, can't guarantee anything ect... I think 16mm will hang around for at least as long as 35mm so i hope to get there after S8 runs it's course with me or otherwise.

Thanks Perry! There's some former missing info there, from what i was trying before. Ignacio, are all the daylight scenes 500T as well? They look really tight, can you tell us more about your post handling?

I use Sony Vegas 10. I did find one tool that almost works but doesn't because of the pillar boxes on the lateral sides.

Yes i think the hassle of loading carts and getting decent raw stock to do so would be too much to deal with. I ordered a stock pile of 60 carts before the price increase to last me a while. If S8 is gone by the time my film is then i'll probably get my Bolex converted to Ultra 16. I'm also ready to get that new Logmar... and mentioned the film situation on their new thread about contacting Kodak about getting some kind of reassurance. I sent Kodak an email with my concerns too. I mentioned all of the recent inovations for new scanners and camera designed around their product.. and any company who has such a fan base and inovative support for their products would find a way to make light of that publicly instead of practically keeping it a secret.

Awesome! The article mentioned timelapse, is this true? Also, Kodak is raising the price almost $5 per roll and has everyone nervous that they mught soon drop S8 all together.. Have you folks been in contact with Kodak at all about your product, or recieved any re-assurance that they will continue to support the format?

Kodak sells empty carts to these places. Same here. I've been really excited to get that camera and start marketing projects. but now i'm afraid to spend $3K on something just so Kodak can pull the plug at a moments notice like they do with all the products they discontinue.

It's a dream machine at that price, but still not priced for independant film makers. Maybe smaller commercial production outfits that want to cut out major production costs. It will be interesting to see how this affects the scanning business as a whole because most places are still paying for mega dollar machines. Even the desk top Kinetta 4K scanner is $180K. Hopefully they will come out with something more in line with the indi film market they serve with their cameras, like a 2K 8/16mm version for under $5K.

It would be bad timing since we're finally about to see the first new S8 camera in 30 years. However 16 and 35mm just had a hike at the beginning of the year (100ft 16mm is up to $40USD from $36) so S8 may just be following suit. Since Super 8 is using the same emulsions as 16/35/65mm, they really don't have anything to loose by keeping it around in quantities that people are using, One thing that does make me nervous is that they also have a new CEO and he looks like a corporate tool... So I went ahead and stocked up of 50 rolls of negative and 10 B&W this morning to avoid the hike and buy time. Worse case, Ferrania is intent on getting into the S8 business and looks like they will have a 100ASA color reversal film to start.

This just blows. It was $15 for a roll of negative just a few years ago, now it's $18.88 soon to be $23.60. The $5 increase wouldn't stop me from shooting S8 all together, but doesn't look good for it's survival. I'm debating about ordering up 60 carts worth of all 4 stocks before May 1st. Then see where things are at the end of that.

Thanks- possibly in the future, but for now i want to remain small. I'm looking to provide services for the hobbiest or short film maker who wants to shoot 1-8 carts of film. Especially negative film which HAS to be transfered and difficult to DIY. Mostly, I want to encourage many of the S8 enthusiasts who seem to have been discouraged by the disappearance of reversal film, where dealing with negative can be costly. When I get a higher end telecine, I usually have to shoot at least 8 carts which can cost me over $400 just for the scan. That makes it hard to experiment and Super 8 has always been an experimantation choice for of it's low cost/low risk. The Vision3 S8 films have a lot more to offer than anything we've had before. Anyone who has been sitting on the sidelines because of higher film chain costs is really missing out. I think that if they picked up shooting the negatives, they would be very pleased with the results and have a lot more fun shooting than they did before. So if you're looking to try out roll of 50D, or maybe see what you can get out of a roll of 500T in low existing light... have at it and let me help you with your scanning needs at a very affordable price.

Hopefully the moderator is ok with this shameless plug for my website. But my goal is to offer quality affordable transfers of negative super 8 film (and reversal) with no minimum. Most post houses require a half hr minimum at about $300 per hr. If you want to keep shooting S8 while enjoying the benefits of all 3 awesome Vision3 films without the high cost hurdles, this is a good alternative. My Rates are $15 per 50ft roll with no color correction, this option gives you a nice inverted raw neg to work with. Or $25 per roll with color correction, grain reduction, ect. www.silentfilmworks.com