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Paulo Arellano

Looking to spend $1500 for a 16mm camera

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I saw Jay's camera. Only thing is that im not in the US. So would be rather expensive to get here plus would have to run the risk of paying customs, :( So figured I'd just get one here (germany).

 

What camera should I think about if I wanted to keep the option to do handheld?

 

Any thoughts about the Beaulieu R16?

Edited by Yaron Y. Dahan

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The Beaulieu R16 stripped down with a small prime lens is small and light, quite usefull. I found it hard to clean the gate easily. They are fairly noisy, though you can get a little pilotone signal generator to shoot sync.. It would be a great camera to wrap in many layers of bubble wrap and throw into the mosh pit, or bolt to an aircraft wing etc.

 

There are several quiet running shoulder mounted cameras that you will see for sale. Lower cost ones first, based on the price trends. If I have the order a bit wrong it doesn't matter much. CP-16R, Eclair NPR, ACL1, ACL1.5, ACL2, Aaton LTR, Arri SR 2. You may not find an LTR or an SR2 easily for under $2000, but I have seen it happen. Like I said before, the price doesn't mean much without knowing what service it has had and what costs are comming.

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I just purchased a CP16R package off eBay and made an offer of $650 including shipping. Seller still has one more package like it and that one comes without a matte box so you might be able to get it for $600. Hard to beat for a recently serviced sync sound camera.

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You can get decent cameras for that price, but if you want to do professional work then it is a different story. You will need a SR 3 or maybe 2 or Aaton super 16 with pl mount. Those cameras will cost you anywhere from 5k to 15k. You will not get any professional paying gig with cps or any other cameras alike.

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Hey Giray,

I don't think this definition of what a "proffessional" camera is matters nuch to Yaran the student or Matthew the film maker. They want some cameras for their own projects and the fact that most 16mm/S16mm cameras are sliding off the "proffessional" platform is actually useful to them. Regarding the prices. yes there are trends, but the patient and desparate do not ride trends. I saw a S16 Aaton with PL mount sell for $2000 recently.

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You can get decent cameras for that price, but if you want to do professional work then it is a different story. You will need a SR 3 or maybe 2 or Aaton super 16 with pl mount. Those cameras will cost you anywhere from 5k to 15k. You will not get any professional paying gig with cps or any other cameras alike.

 

Define "professional?" If you mean paying gig, I beg to differ. If you mean high end, you're right. People pay for t3i DPs so I think you need to see how the ultra low budget scene works these days.

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Guest Christopher Sheneman

Here's my CP-GSMO. I spent $500 for the body, lens, mag and battery. Another $150 for the matte box, rails for a total of under $700. The only thing is I hacked-sawed the rails and drilled/bolted the rear railholder. There are deals to be had if you look! It's dead quiet..

 

180-2_zps219c4d35.jpg

 

183-3_zpsa7fec224.jpg

186-1_zpsc9322433.jpg

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For something really interesting but even less common. An Actionmaster 16mm is up on eBay. Up to 500fps from a camera about the same size as a GSMO, that sits on your shoulder.

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It's a cool looking camera, but the lens appears like an old angenieux. That's kind of a deal breaker for professional gigs. Also, as you are aware of it I'm sure, registration with aged cameras tend to be less precise than more modern cameras such as 416s. Don't get me wrong, its a great camera for what it is. I have an NPR camera serviced by Bernie a few months ago, and really like using it. However, if I were to shoot the Subaru commercial, I wouldn't risk the project with it. Instead, I would rent a more reliable camera like a 416. Also, these cameras are not nearly quiet as the newer ones.It is kind of like taking on full fledge feature with a Konvas camera instead of an Arricam. The reason those dslr "dps" get hired is because it's a new toy that yields "great" 35 looking images. Also, those dps usually get paid next to nothing. If the guy is going to get a camera, might as well buy one that you can get real paying gigs with. More future proof system.. Once again though, a great looking camera and congrats on the deal.

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Matthew,

Those ultra low budget productions would most likely not use film camera of any kind. For a 10 min short, you need something like 70-100 min worth of film stock. So, it's like 1000 dollars for film.. Those people are reluctant of paying more than a hundred dollars a day to theirdps... Yea you can get short ends etc with risk if there is any available. If it was 35 however, it would be easier to find cheaper short ends or re-can stock. Then there is s8, well, it's a cool format that has a unique look. There are some music videos and stuff shot on it for aesthetic reasons, obviously not a pro format by any means. Much like dslr crash cams don't make those stills cameras full fledge cine cameras.. If these cheap cameras were that reliable and great, then productions like "The Walking Dead' would have been shot on NPRs for a fraction of their current expenses.

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Guest Christopher Sheneman

Interesting looking camera. When did it last have a lube and a check over? Just saw an Arri B to CP lens mount adapter for 95 bucks. May be usefull.

http://www.ebay.com/...=item257899d00d

It was overhauled by George at Optical Electro House (new electronics,etc. back in 2007 with a new circuit board, George has since retired).

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It is kind of like taking on full fledge feature with a Konvas camera instead of an Arricam.

 

Im not sure its fair to compare a CP16 to a Konvas. I was under the impression that Konvas was an MOS camera. CP16 is not MOS by any means. Some claim they are a little loud but a sound barney, like the one from Visual Products, should be all that is needed to keep it to reasonable levels. But im glad people seem to disdain the CP16 because that keeps the cost down. Its funny that I'll see people talk poorly of the CP16 but use Arri 16S which is not a sync camera. Interesting indeed.

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Define "professional?" If you mean paying gig, I beg to differ. If you mean high end, you're right. People pay for t3i DPs so I think you need to see how the ultra low budget scene works these days.

that's pretty much it. Basically I bought an 8mm camera to try it out, liked and used that, so bought a better 8mm camera. Now I'll give 16mm a shot, so need a camera to play with/practice on, and when I use it enough, well then, I'll go out and buy something super fantastic... what I would like now is something that 1. I can play with/learn on 2. Will still give me pretty decent images

 

If I use it for hours and hours, then I can find something fancier. If not, well then, it's less of a loss

 

@Gregg. Thanks for the list. I'll keep exploring from here, and keep my eyes peeled.

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Yea I know, Konvas is MOS. I did the comparison on the basis of irrelevancy of both systems to today's industry.

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that's pretty much it. Basically I bought an 8mm camera to try it out, liked and used that, so bought a better 8mm camera. Now I'll give 16mm a shot...

Sounds like a Scoopic MS would be perfect. It has an automatic meter/aperture if you want to use it and loading is very easy. Should get one in great shape for about $750 or less. Save the rest of your money for film and processing and transfer.

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Yea I know, Konvas is MOS. I did the comparison on the basis of irrelevancy of both systems to today's industry.

 

I guess the "The Blair Witch Project" was "irrelevant" since it used the CP-16 for all its film parts and only went on to gross over $248 million at the box office. But I'm sure that's small pototoes compared to the jobs you work on. ;)

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Well, the footage looked like complete crap, ya gotta admit. But then again, they were going for a grungy doc style.

 

All of the above cameras are capable of delivering cinema quality images. It's just that only the more expensive cameras are accepted by people with money when funding films. And 16 is in the clutches of death himself. There are few 16mm features or television being produced these days and the number decreased monthly.

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Well, the footage looked like complete crap, ya gotta admit. But then again, they were going for a grungy doc style.

 

All of the above cameras are capable of delivering cinema quality images. It's just that only the more expensive cameras are accepted by people with money when funding films. And 16 is in the clutches of death himself. There are few 16mm features or television being produced these days and the number decreased monthly.

 

Why the disdain for CP16? There are adapters out there for CP to Arri mount and then you can use some of the finest glass out there. Frills are nice but the CP16 can get the job done with good glass.

 

edit: I guess Aronofsky missed the memo about 16 being dead.

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Matthew,

First of all, the movie Blair Witch Project made all that money because it was based on "true events" supposedly, not for its pic quality. I'm not bashing on Cps or Eclairs, they are fine cameras. I have an NPR that was fully serviced by Bernie a few months ago. It runs great, but it doesn't have an SR 3' s reputation. So I can't claim that it is a professional marketable camera for bigger projects. Newer cameras are way quiter, reliable, with precise registration, which affects image sharpness. Also, with cameras like those, you can program the camera if you want to ramp up the speed in the middle of shoot if you like for effect. When clients see an up to par newer camera, they feel safer laying down sth like 50000+ dollars for a commercial. Older cameras may run great but it is not guaranteed that it will the next day. Everythime, an older camera acts up in an unpredictable way, production delays, and costs more money than using a newer cameras. So, in my opinion, if you shoot projects as a hobbyist, then cameras like cps and eclairs are fine. However, if you would like to get into bigger productions like features, commercials, etc., then you have to own a modern camera system. Otherwise, you wouldn't be able to compete against a guy with a newer Aaton. Or, you can simply rent reputable cameras for projects as such, and use you cp or eclair type systems for dun little projects. Btw, I watched your short film about a Marine, who turns out gay; it was pretty cool.

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For something dead, I surely enjoyed loading my Eclair ACL yesterday. In the other news, a friend of mine has almost finished building his 16mm film processing unit (some video footage

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLM9-F370bU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfV_p-mijwM

 

2K scanner with Kodak CCD under construction by the same guy.

 

 

So, as long as somebody is manufacturing 16mm film, this process certainly ain't dead for us. ;)

Edited by Heikki Repo

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Btw, I watched your short film about a Marine, who turns out gay; it was pretty cool.

 

Thank you for that.

 

You are right that for 50k commercial, you want stability. I was more referring to why cant Eclair or CP be good alternative to DSLR shoot? You will still get the benefits of shooting on celluloid even if the image isnt as sharp as high end. The latitude is still good and the image stability of those cameras isnt terrible. It might not be rock solid but you will do better with pans and movement than the rolling shutters of DSLR.

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Guest Christopher Sheneman

It's just a tool, guys. I don't think the audience cares whether or not it was shot on an antique or not. If anything, they might enjoy that aspect.

 

I think there's two camps here. The working professional and the upstart indie. Both have valid arguments, though I think it's a bit bully-ish for the working professionals to be posting in the $1,500 camera thread.

 

You're right, Arri SR3's are better than CP-16's.. and they're also not $1,500.

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