Looking for a Eclair Cameflex motor

[Walt van der Aar]

Hi!

I recently acquired a Eclair Cameflex 35mm camera. It came with a motor but unfortunately it is a 3 phase motor. I've looked on eBay but no luck there. Anyone selling a motor that is capable of 24/25 fps or can direct me in the right direction?

Kind regards.

[Fabian Schreyer]

Is it a brushless DC motor that you got? If thats the case you might be able to get it running just by using any cheap BLDC controller. Photos of the motor and its labels would help.

[Walt van der Aar]

17 minutes ago, Fabian Schreyer said:

Is it a brushless DC motor that you got? If thats the case you might be able to get it running just by using any cheap BLDC controller. Photos of the motor and its labels would help.

I'm not sure. Does this help?

[Fabian Schreyer]

No, that is not a BLDC motor. Maybe it is something like the synchronous motors that were sold with ARRI cameras? But that would need an external box as well. 

Sorry, I can't help you with that, but I am sure that someone here is familiar with these things.

[Gregg MacPherson]

Hey Walt,

On the main page showing all the sub forums there is >Cameras Systems and Formats>Eclair...quite an active group with a couple of electronics guys and maybe some Cameflex knowledge..Show the photo there... (Edit: the marketplace forum has high traffic and you will be lost downstream in a day or two.)

https://cinematography.com/index.php?/forums/forum/76-eclair/

Edited November 5, 2023 by Gregg MacPherson

[Aapo Lettinen]

3 hours ago, Walt van der Aar said:

I'm not sure. Does this help?

Some kind of old synchronous motor. You can run it from single phase 220v by connecting one of the motor phases with capacitor. Pretty simple modification but can be very dangerous if done wrong so let a certified electrician do the job. Things like small industrial/agriculture fans, laundry machines etc. use similar kind of capacitor arrangement and any electrician familiar with those can do the modification for you.

Cameflexes never had brushless motors, they are 40's/50's cameras and brushless technology was not available for cameras back then

[Fabian Schreyer]

10 minutes ago, aapo lettinen said:

Cameflexes never had brushless motors, they are 40's/50's cameras and brushless technology was not available for cameras back then

I suggested that because I thought that he might have been given some more recent aftermarket (maybe even crystal sync) motor without its control unit. Once seeing the picture it obviously became clear that that is not the case.

[Walt van der Aar]

On 11/5/2023 at 11:28 PM, aapo lettinen said:

Some kind of old synchronous motor. You can run it from single phase 220v by connecting one of the motor phases with capacitor. Pretty simple modification but can be very dangerous if done wrong so let a certified electrician do the job. Things like small industrial/agriculture fans, laundry machines etc. use similar kind of capacitor arrangement and any electrician familiar with those can do the modification for you.

Cameflexes never had brushless motors, they are 40's/50's cameras and brushless technology was not available for cameras back then

Thanks for your response. I've read somewhere that it's possible but I will lose about 30% of motor power. Is that true?

[Duncan Brown]

I know nothing at all about this era Eclair, but is this a suitable motor for your camera?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/145044427703

(Not mine, just saw it in passing and remembered this thread.)

Duncan

[Walt van der Aar]

57 minutes ago, Duncan Brown said:

I know nothing at all about this era Eclair, but is this a suitable motor for your camera?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/145044427703

(Not mine, just saw it in passing and remembered this thread.)

Duncan

Thanks and it's definitely the kind of motor I'm looking for. Unfortunately in the description it says it needs a service. So I'm not sure whether to buy it and take the risk. Thanks anyway!

[Duncan Brown]

Well a motor that needs work is much closer to being a working motor than no motor at all!  (Or one that needs 3-phase power, yikes!)  If I had to guess, I bet the 12-27V upconverter is the problem.  Most of these old motors need a whole bunch of amps, and little converter boxes like that are rarely up to the task.  I bet a real 27V battery belt would have that thing flying.  But, as you say, a lot of money to risk on a guess,.

Duncan

[Walt van der Aar]

5 hours ago, Duncan Brown said:

Well a motor that needs work is much closer to being a working motor than no motor at all!  (Or one that needs 3-phase power, yikes!)  If I had to guess, I bet the 12-27V upconverter is the problem.  Most of these old motors need a whole bunch of amps, and little converter boxes like that are rarely up to the task.  I bet a real 27V battery belt would have that thing flying.  But, as you say, a lot of money to risk on a guess,.

Duncan

Thanks Duncan. I'm gonna dive into the matter and think about it. Thanks for the advice. Cheers

[Steven Jackson]

Marek Budzynski, on this website, was developing a new motor for the Eclair Cameflex 35mm cameras.  Surprised he hasn't chimed in here.  Do a search and you'll find him and links to videos of his motor working.

[Marek Budzynski]

Hello, Just noticed this thread. Been away for a bit.

I have a few new Cameflex motors for sale. Either single speed 24 or 25 or varispeed. PM me if you need any advice etc.

Cheers

Marek

[Marek Budzynski]

Quick note about the 12-27v up converter, it's rated at 20A so plenty enough to power the motor.  It runs 30fps without a mag but only 16fps with a full load or 35mm (400'). The trouble with old motors is that sometimes the windings disintegrate over time and this motor is over 50 years old.  I have a friend who has a fully working one that has the same up converter as the one in this photo (sticking up behind the motor and about the same size):

 

[Fabian Schreyer]

Do you have any cables for the 3-phase motor? You could just run it with a VFD.

Edited November 12, 2023 by Fabian Schreyer

[Christos Dassios]

Dear Walt,

Your motor seems to be similar to one, I bought a few years ago.

Mine is marked:

220 VOLTS

3 PHASES

50CY - 3000R

25 FRAMES

No 220

MADE IN FRANCE

My motor's cables have three colours: Red, blue and green.

Sine I also had problems to make it run, I gave it to a very experienced electrician.

The electrician used a capacitor, marked:

WB4060 MK SH

6μF +/-5% SO

AC 400V B

AC 450V C

40/085/21

50-60Hz

(Currently I have problems with uploading pictures.)

He attached the capacitor`s blue cable to the motor's green.

And the capacitor`s brown to the motor's red.

With croco clamps he gave current to the wired cables blue/green and to the motor's blue cable.

It ran!

Please, do not regard this as an instruction. Safety first!

But maybe it helps somehow.

All best,

Christos

 

[Christos Dassios]

Here is the Label of the motor.

[Christos Dassios]

This is the capacitor, as suggested by the electrician.

[Christos Dassios]

Now, the upload worked.

[Christos Dassios]

And here is the connection of the cables.

If your motor has no cables at all, please let me know and I will open mine, to find out where the different coloured cables are attached to inside the motor.