Samuel Berger Posted October 5 Share Posted October 5 Originally posted on that other forum. Unfortunately I lost access to it, so here it goes: From sharpest to softest: Prime lenses (Leitz 1.8/10mm on Leicina Special, Switars on H8, 6mm computar) ANGENIEUX Macro 1.2/6-80 & ANGENIEUX Macro 1.2/6-90 (BEAULIEU ZM2,Bauer S 715XL, 5008S, 6008Pro) ZEISS Vario Sonnar 1.9/9-36mm (MOVIEFLEX MS8) SCHNEIDER Macro Optivaron 1.8/6-66mm (BEAULIEU 4008 ZM2/3, 5008s, LEICINA SPECIAL) NIKKOR Macro 1.4/7-70mm (NIKON R10) ANGENIEUX 1.9/8-64mm (BEAULIEU 2008, 4008ZM/2) SCHNEIDER Macro Optivaron 1.4/6-70mm (BEAULIEU ZM4, 5008MS, 6/7/9008) CANON Macro 1.4/7-56mm (CANON 814XLS) CANON Macro 1.4/6.5-65mm (CANON 1014XLS) : with : BAUER Macro Neovaron 1.2/6-51mm (BAUER S709XL) ANGENIEUX Macro 1.4/6-90mm (BEAULIEU 6/7/9008, BAUER S715XL) CHINON 1.8/6-72mm (CHINON 12SMR) CANON 1.4/7.5-60mm (CANON DS8) MINOLTA Rokkor 1.8/7-70mm (MINOLTA D10) CANON C8 1.8/9.5-47.5mm (CANON 518) CANON 1.4/7.5-60mm (CANON 814E) ( same that CANON DS8 ???) CANON Macro 1.4/9-45mm (CANON 514XL) ELMO Macro 1.2/7.5-75mm (ELMO 1012XLS) SANKYO 1.2/8.5-35mm (SANKYO ES44XL) SCHNEIDER Macro Variogon 1.8/7-80mm (NIZO PRO, 801Macro) SCHNEIDER Macro Variogon 1.7/7-56mm (NIZO 2056, 3056, 4056) SCHNEIDER Macro Variogon 1.4/7-80mm (NIZO 4080, 6080) SCHNEIDER Variogon 1.8/7-80mm (NIZO S800, S801) SANKYO 1,8 /7,5-60 mm (SANKYO CM800) CANON 1.0/8.5-25.5mm (CANON 310 XL,XLS,XLS AF) Vario 1.9/9-30mm (EUMIG MINI3, BOLEX 233) T55 2.4/12mm (LOMO AURORA 218, 219) : Plastic, S8 camera dream for DIANA users ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andries Molenaar Posted October 8 Share Posted October 8 I would think that it was posted here and copied there, of course poster didn't actually test all these lenses 🙂 The Bauer s715xl only has one lens, the 1.2 The 1.4 sits on the equivalent Porst 1500. I.e. as OEM supplied to the chain of 100-s of shops at the time. I would expect that that is the same lens but limited in apperture to open only to 1.4 🙂 Angénieux did'nt start a special production of lesser glass or smaller diameter. In al the R10 will produce the sharpest images as it has the better lens and film handling using the mini ramps and wood-pecker like stop pins which keep the film still during exposure. Important. The Leicina space age gate meterial is a myth. And it is a die-hard misunderstanding to think that the film is in contact with the camera-gate or cartridge plate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillip Mosness Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 It can be a bit challenging to rate lenses in this way. Is this list from one person's perspective from general usage, or some sort of clinical testing with charts etc.? It can be tough because sometimes sharpness can be more about perceived contrast that a lens can deliver. I own/have owned a few of the ones listed, so this is just anecdotal. The #1 on the list is the10mm Cinegon for my Leicina. It's a fine lens. I don't find it any different than the Schneider 6-66 zoom that comes with the Leicina Special, though. It sure is small, though. Makes a great compact set up. The Best lens I ever owned was the Angenieux 6-90mm on my Beaulieux 6008. Knocked it out of the park with contrast and an indescribable texture with projected reversal. I found it stronger than the more modern 6-90mm I currently have or the 6-80mm 1.2, which is usually higher on these lists. "In al the R10 will produce the sharpest images as it has the better lens and film handling using the mini ramps and wood-pecker like stop pins which keep the film still during exposure." I have an R-10. GREAT camera. Solid. Durable. But, I haven't found the little pins to have any effect on image quality or stabilization. Stable image seems to be a weaker link than lens choice with super 8. The Logmar camera is the only camera that has shown me how much you can get out of the format with a real pressure plate etc.   Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don H Marks Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 (edited) Aperture selection may be just as important as "Which Lens." Tiny lenses have tiny apertures that degrade the image from diffraction after just a few stops. I have complete sets of ND filters for most all of my Bolex 8mm format lenses for this reason. f22 on a 5.5mm lens is kind of like pinhole photography. Everything is in focus but nothing is sharp. I try not to stop down past an absolute aperture of 4 or 5mm with normal lenses of any format. My soft limits (no pun intended): Minox -> f3.5 ( no choice by design) 8mm film -> f4 16mm Still (spy camera) -> f5.6 35mm Still -> f11 6x6cm -> f16 4x5" -> f32 8x10" -> f64   Edited October 15 by Don H Marks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane C Collins Posted October 17 Share Posted October 17 (edited) One camera that didn't make this list, but should have, is the Elmo Super 110. This camera has an absolutely stunning, and sharp lens! My current Ektachrome Super 8 films (7294) shot on this camera look very sharp with good contrast projected! This is one camera that is underrated in my opinion. Note: When shooting modern Ektachrome color reversal, I always apply one stop more exposure, along with using a ND filter. This combination has worked great for my projection needs! The films end up with better contrast and sharpness. Edited October 17 by Shane C Collins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon O'Brien Posted October 18 Share Posted October 18 That sounds interesting Shane. I'd like to know more. I get the opening up by one stop bit but can you explain how you use the ND filter and how that improves the contrast and sharpness when projecting. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel Berger Posted October 18 Author Share Posted October 18 12 hours ago, Shane C Collins said: using a ND filter. What strength ND filter? And I gotta say, I think it's good that the Elmo Super 110 is underrated. It's a great camera and I own one. I owned an Elmo Super 108 35 years ago and even that one shot amazing Kodachrome. I also owned an Elmo 1012XLS and it was pretty darn good! The Elmos are also very portable. Let's face it, with Super 8 film it's all really about the lenses and reliability. There's no codec or sensor to worry about. No audio capability issues. The only reason to overspend on a Canon 1014 XLS is if you have money to burn and/or you like the form factor. I think the Canon has an amazing form factor and I love the ergonomics. But that isn't going to produce better quality images. Top of the crop is the Logmar, but that's never going to happen for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel Preston Posted October 18 Share Posted October 18 36 minutes ago, Samuel Berger said:  The only reason to overspend on a Canon 1014 XLS is if you have money to burn and/or you like the form factor. I think the Canon has an amazing form factor and I love the ergonomics. But that isn't going to produce better quality images. 5 bladed iris, Spectra coatings, DC motors with AC tachometer and there are definitely more reasons than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane C Collins Posted Monday at 08:24 PM Share Posted Monday at 08:24 PM On 10/18/2024 at 4:42 AM, Jon O'Brien said: That sounds interesting Shane. I'd like to know more. I get the opening up by one stop bit but can you explain how you use the ND filter and how that improves the contrast and sharpness when projecting. Thanks. So here's the basics of what I do when shooting modern Ektachrome! Before I explain, I must address the fact I made a notch sensor when using the Elmo Super 110. That camera does not have a backlight control to open the exposure. On cameras that do I use the backlight function, I simply use that when filming with 7294. In order to make the Elmo Super 110 accomplish this, I crafted a small plastic piece that fits in the notching area on a Ektachrome Super 8 cartridge. When the cart is inserted into the camera it pushes the pin for 64 instead of 100 ASA. This gives me the 1 stop overexposure while filming. You asked about using a ND filter. I use a X4 which reduces the exposure by 2 f stops. I simply screw the ND filter on the front lens of the Elmo Super 110. I only use this during sunny weather or while at the beach! The method I mentioned above works in conjunction with the ND filter. Another words, I am applying the extra exposure from 100 ASA down to 64 ASA, and the ND filter at the same time. If your filming on a sunny day or at the beach, you simply can't just open the exposure without some shades so to speak. The shades being the darker lens of the ND filter. The camera's auto exposure will compensate when using the ND filter. So even though I'm adjusting the exposure by opening up 1 stop, I'm also making sure I don't overdo it in sunny weather. This same method applies when using a camera with a backlight function. I hope this helps answer your question. It's all pretty simple, but I've been filming on Super 8 for the last 20 years. I've learned some tricks along the way that add some extra elements to my films, that being contrast, and sharpness. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane C Collins Posted Monday at 08:48 PM Share Posted Monday at 08:48 PM (edited) I wanted to add to my above post: One thing I noticed back in 2018 when Ektachrome returned, was underexposure. My first cart shot in the 110 was very dark projected. And this is a camera that has always had a very accurate auto exposure. In fact, I had just shot some Tr--X at the time back then. That film was spot on exposure wise, so I knew it wasn't a camera issue. I began researching others experiences with 7294. Now remember this was the first year it came out, so there wasn't much posted about it at the time. However., I was able to find a post at a forum dedicated to still photography. Someone at that time mentioned their experience with the latest Ektachrome. They went on to say their returned stills from the lab were very underexposed at 100 ASA or box speed. So I decided to try overexposing my second cart of Ektachrome Super 8 by one stop. When that film returned from the lab it was perfect on the projector. Suddenly those muddy contrasted and dark scenes were brighter, but not too bright. And the sharpness of the films were perfect! That one stop of extra light, and a ND filter on bright days, transformed my Super 8 films. I've shot every cart this way since then with excellent results! I've shared this many times over the years here, and on other Super 8 forums. Other shooters have commented this fixed their issues with underexposure. Edited Monday at 09:01 PM by Shane C Collins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane C Collins Posted Monday at 09:06 PM Share Posted Monday at 09:06 PM (edited) My conclusion, Kodak simply overrated this films ASA. The sweet spot seems to be between 64-80 ASA. This makes 7294 the best color reversal to date, with the ability to overexpose and get perfect results! Its latitude is quite high for a reversal stock. But, as I mentioned above you must use caution on bright days and use a ND filter! Edited Monday at 09:07 PM by Shane C Collins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel Berger Posted Monday at 10:27 PM Author Share Posted Monday at 10:27 PM 1 hour ago, Shane C Collins said: But, as I mentioned above you must use caution on bright days and use a ND filter! I'm mostly interested in the notch hack, now. I gotta look into the details of this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane C Collins Posted Monday at 11:56 PM Share Posted Monday at 11:56 PM (edited) I used epoxy to mold the piece I needed to fit in the carts notching area. The piece hardened after a few hours, and was usable after that. I store the piece in a small container. When it's needed on the Elmo Super 110 I insert it into the cart. I'm including a photo and drawing I did. The red indicates how the piece fits into the cart. I don't have a cart to use at the moment to show you how the actual piece works, but this should help explain it! I'm also including a photo of the cartridge notch ruler I used as a reference to find the proper position for 64 ASA. That's the speed I'm using when filming. As you can see, the 64 ASA notch is just above the notch used for 100 ASA. I simply needed to fill this area in, or in my case have an insert that pushes the 64 ASA pin inside the camera. I did have to test the epoxy piece before it hardened. I believe I did need to remove a small portion so it pushed the correct pin. Once I was satisfied the camera opened one stop, I let it harden. Edited Tuesday at 12:04 AM by Shane C Collins 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joerg Polzfusz Posted Tuesday at 07:13 AM Share Posted Tuesday at 07:13 AM Hi! So you’re basically using the ND filter to allow the camera to stay in the range of f4-f8, where the lens is sharper than at f16? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Dunn Posted Tuesday at 09:29 AM Share Posted Tuesday at 09:29 AM 10 hours ago, Samuel Berger said: I'm mostly interested in the notch hack, now. I gotta look into the details of this! There's a template on Super8wiki IIRC. http://super8wiki.com/index.php/Super_8_Cartridge_Notch_Ruler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane C Collins Posted Tuesday at 08:02 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 08:02 PM 12 hours ago, Joerg Polzfusz said: Hi! So you’re basically using the ND filter to allow the camera to stay in the range of f4-f8, where the lens is sharper than at f16? That's correct! On sunny days I'm seeing between F8 and occasionally F11, which is very acceptable and yields nice sharp images! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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