Freya Black Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 I'm just wondering if it is possible to still create 16mm prints in B&W from reversal footage, for example TRI-X? I know this isn't possible for colour reversal anymore but can it be done for black and white or is Plus-X neg the only real way to go now for this kind of thing? love Freya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Wells Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 You could make positive prints via 7234 Internegative. -Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freya Black Posted January 2, 2006 Author Share Posted January 2, 2006 You could make positive prints via 7234 Internegative. -Sam I just went away and looked it up and came across something called 7272 as well which can make prints from 7240. Is this film still available? It's even ECN2! I've got a feeling there is a load of 7240 in my freezer at the moment. Maybe I could make prints from it! Of course it might be hard to find a lab that will do wierd stuff like that (not to mention process the VNF altho I know a lab that will do it in E6) and thats 3 sets of film in both cases using weird processes. Do you think it would be cheaper to just shoot ECN-2 neg and make prints that way? It's an interesting possibility I can think of all sorts of unmentionable advantages to doing things that way however! ;) love Freya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Tobin Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 I just went away and looked it up and came across something called 7272 as well which can make prints from 7240. Is this film still available? It's even ECN2!... This is color internegative stock which makes a color negative from original reversal. This would in turn be printed on color positive stock. The contrast is too high for printing from 7240, it was made for originals on 7252 Ektachrome Commercial. Back when we used to ride dinosaurs to work, we used to flash the high-speed Ektachrome before processing in order to make an original that would make prints through 7272 that would not have ugly excess contrast. With the demise of both 7360 and 7361 I am not sure what labs will do now to make B&W prints directly from reversal. They could conceivably make copies on flashed or flattened Plus-X Reversal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Charles MacDonald Posted January 3, 2006 Premium Member Share Posted January 3, 2006 With the demise of both 7360 and 7361 I am not sure what labs will do now to make B&W prints directly from reversal. They could conceivably make copies on flashed or flattened Plus-X Reversal. Would they not use the EASTMAN Fine Grain Duplicating Panchromatic Negative Film 5234/7234 :) to make a negative, and them print on 7302 or 2302? From reading th edata- this should also work for making a B&W release print from a colour reversal original. Only gotcha I can see is if the perf pitch will work, normaly the neg is shortter pitch than the print, but this is persumably made in Neg pitch? I am surprised that I cannot find the clour equivelent in the listing of internediate films. The closest to an Internegative is EASTMAN Color Internegative II Film 5272 / 7272 but as other have said that is directed in making negs from EASTMAN EKTACHROME Film 7240 _ONLY_ :o The only other colour intermediate is intended for Laser recording from Video. :huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Wells Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 Would they not use the EASTMAN Fine Grain Duplicating Panchromatic Negative Film 5234/7234 :) to make a negative, and them print on 7302 or 2302? Well that's what I suggested. I like the idea of printing reversal on "flattened" Plus - X reversal.... PS I saw a film where the filmmaker shot Super 8 Plus-X; blown up to 16mm (via what I don't know yet) and printed on Vision stock (probably not Premiere as that's pretty rare in 16mm); the only way I really knew it was color print stock was because there were color shots also. I've _never_ seen B&W printed on color print without some color in the blacks before. Maybe it was Premiere, I'm going to try & find out. It looked *very* good. I was surprised to say the least. -Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freya Black Posted January 3, 2006 Author Share Posted January 3, 2006 (edited) This is color internegative stock which makes a color negative from original reversal. This would in turn be printed on color positive stock. The contrast is too high for printing from 7240, it was made for originals on 7252 Ektachrome Commercial. Back when we used to ride dinosaurs to work, we used to flash the high-speed Ektachrome before processing in order to make an original that would make prints through 7272 that would not have ugly excess contrast. With the demise of both 7360 and 7361 I am not sure what labs will do now to make B&W prints directly from reversal. They could conceivably make copies on flashed or flattened Plus-X Reversal. Sorry yes it's an internegative. I didn't mean to suggest you could make prints directly with it but that's probably the way my post sounded. You say this would be no use for 7240 tho? Kodak are suggesting it to make internegs from 7240 on their site, is this just cause they have the formulation and figured it would do for 7240 now there is no ekta commercial do you think? love Freya Edited January 3, 2006 by Freya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Wells Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 Freya - Clive is technically right, flashing the VNF camera film controlled the contrast better. Having said, I have had 7240 printed via 7272 to positive print. It looked "ok" but I was never a 7240 fan anyway. 7240 post flashed & printed on Kodachrome 7387 could look pretty good back in the Dino Days. 7240 and all VNF are discontinued stocks, I'm not sure why pursuing this line. -Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member John Pytlak RIP Posted January 3, 2006 Premium Member Share Posted January 3, 2006 EASTMAN Color Internegative II Film 5272 / 7272 would be the usual choice for making internegatives from color reversal originals: http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/products...1.4.6.4.6&lc=en It would not be unheard of to use a fine grain, low speed camera negative film as an internegative, for example 7201: http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/products...1.4.4.4.4&lc=en Since 7272 was originally designed for the lower contrast reversal camera films like ECO 7255 and 7252, you may find better results if the lab preflashes the stock to reduce the shadow contrast somewhat. Flashing will also help reduce shadow contrast if you use a camera negative film as an internegative. Pull processing may also help reduce overall contrast. Again, the projection contrast color reversal camera films (like VNF and KODACHROME films) were designed primarily for direct projection and for use as newsfilm on older vidicon telecine chains, so they are not ideally suited to duplication via internegative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Carter Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 Would this film be used to make internegatives from Tri-X reversal? https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/871469-REG/kodak_8568818_fine_grain_duplicating_panchromatic.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Sponsor Robert Houllahan Posted June 12, 2019 Site Sponsor Share Posted June 12, 2019 There are a couple of ways to make a positive from Tri-X these days, a inter-negative and print which is the "right" way to do it and will retain good sharpness and contrast. 3234 is a fine dupe neg stock and Orwo also has dupe neg stocks. We have also made "Dirty Dupes" as work-prints for customers which are basically printing Tri-X to print stock and then running the print stock as a negative to make a one step positive, this is very contrasty but works as a workprint. Olde Thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Dunn Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 6 hours ago, Robert Houllahan said: n running the print stock as a negative Do you mean running it as reversal? A neg from reversal would still look like a neg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Carter Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 I'm gonna have a go at this. Some developers are low contrast that I will try with 3378 and 7363 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Sponsor Robert Houllahan Posted June 12, 2019 Site Sponsor Share Posted June 12, 2019 8 hours ago, Mark Dunn said: Do you mean running it as reversal? A neg from reversal would still look like a neg. Yeah Reversal bath not neg bath then you have Hi Contrast direct duplicate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Carter Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 7363 doesn't react to the red light but 3378 did so 7363 gets tried first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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