An Inconvenient Truth

[John Pytlak RIP]

First of all, Al Gore is the last one to blame anyone over global warming. I remember in 2000 when he flew to Kyoto and refused to sign the treaty because it didn't serve America's interest. I, for one, belive if he had been President, his position wouldn't be any different than W's.

 

Al Gore SIGNED the Kyoto Treaty in November 1998, representing the United States, but the US Senate did not ratify it:

 

http://www.cnn.com/TECH/science/9811/12/climate.signing/

[Arni Heimir]

Thanks John.

 

I stand corrected. That's a first:)

[Max Jacoby]

Last but not least, why not enjoy ourselves. Drive more. Heat or cool our homes more and not worry about something we have no control over. We will all be long dead before global warming starts to yield adverse climate conditions.

Are you serious?

 

Because if you are, then you are just a selfish, shortsighted idiot who does not care about those that come after him. We have a responsibility not just towards ourselves but also towards the future.

[ken wood]

Richard, don't you know that any change of any kind is bad, and that if mankind does anything it's unnatural?

You know;

beaver makes dam = natural event, creates more diversity of wildlife because of the extra water, etc..

Humans make dam = unnatrual raping of the landscape.

 

Also, don't you know that all those history books talking about ice ages, and past periods of greenhouse climate (like when the dinosaurs lived) are all a huge Republican conspiracy?

Everyone knows that the temperature of the planet has never wavered.

 

As for Al Gore's constantly saying "the debate is over", there's actually quite a bit of scientific debate still going on, and no, it's not "republicans mostly", it's more like "climatologists, mostly"

Here's a good sampling of scientists on BOTH side of the issue. Nice to see an actual balanced set of viewpoints for a change.

http://www.livescience.com/environment/060...al_warming.html

 

Speaking of propaganda, I'm getting sick of hearing how big a hit this film is. It's only grossed 17 mil:

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=in...enienttruth.htm

To paraphrase Gen Douglas MacArthur--- "It's the Sun, The Sun, and the Sun!"

[Guest]

Ok well in all seriousness...it was pointed out on my recent expedition to Antarctica that by drilling deep into the ice of Antarctica scientists can retrieve gas bubbles trapped in the ice. These bubbles reveal that there are more green house gasses in the atmosphere today than there have been in the last 420,000 years. The gas bubbles act as atmospheric time capsules.

 

I find it tough to dispute such research.

 

In a move that shocked much of the world, Canada pulled out of Kyoto. Al Gore was on TV here laughing at how if some one had told him that Canada would pull out of Kyoto, he would never have believed it. Sure Kyoto was not perfect but it was "some thing" as opposed to doing "nothing."

 

Other posters have raised a very good point, even if global warming is a myth, what is the down side to having a cleaner planet? What will the adverse effects be if the air and water are cleaner?

 

Fact is that legislation can make a difference. In the early 80s lakes in northern Ontario where being destroyed by acid rain, no one could dispute that. (Matt Pacini thinks acid rain was a natural occurance "1980's: Acid rain: Remember this one? It was going to kill all our forests. It was found to be a natural occurrance. That's why you don't hear about it anymore." See below Matt as to why you don't hear about acid rain any more)

 

Canadian Prime Minister Brian Mulroney pressed Ronald Reagan hard to sign a treaty that would cut down on the type of pollution that caused acid rain. Reagan signed the treaty, the law went into effect, and acid rain slowly abated. Now it is a thing of distant memory, for the media at least. It's kind of like how AIDS knocked herpes out of the news, herpes is still around but it looks pretty tame compared to AIDS.

 

R,

 

Here are some facts on acid rain, it does not sound naturally occuring to me:

 

http://www.ec.gc.ca/acidrain/acidfact.html

 

Sulphur dioxide (SO2) is generally a byproduct of industrial processes and burning of fossil fuels. Ore smelting, coal-fired power generators and natural gas processing are the main contributors. In 2000, for instance, U.S. SO2 emissions were measured at 14.8 million tonnes - more than six times greater than Canada's 2.4 million tonnes. But the sources of SO2 emissions from the two countries are different. In Canada, 68% of emissions come from industrial sources and 27% comes from electric utilities (2000). In the U.S., 67% of emissions are from electric utilities (2002).

 

Canada cannot win the fight against acid rain on its own. Only reducing acidic emissions in both Canada and the U.S. will stop acid rain. More than half of the acid deposition in eastern Canada originates from emissions in the United States. Areas such as southeastern Ontario (Longwoods) and Sutton, Quebec receive about three-quarters of their acid deposition from the United States. In 1995, the estimated transboundary flow of sulphur dioxide from the United States to Canada was between 3.5 and 4.2 millions of tonnes per year.

[Arni Heimir]

Are you serious?

 

you are just a selfish, shortsighted idiot

 

I prefer to be called "semi-sane".

 

 

I don't understand the big deal.

 

I am obviously just doing a little playful banter. A bit of tongue in cheek humour. Yes, there are evidence that global warming is a man made phenomenon. But what can we do about it? Is global warming irreversible? Or have you guys watched "waterworld" too many times?

[John Pytlak RIP]

I prefer to be called "semi-sane".

I don't understand the big deal.

 

I am obviously just doing a little playful banter. A bit of tongue in cheek humour. Yes, there are evidence that global warming is a man made phenomenon. But what can we do about it? Is global warming irreversible? Or have you guys watched "waterworld" too many times?

 

Al Gore's "Inconvenient Truth" closing titles list many things that each of us can do NOW to help reverse global warming. With today's technology, there's lots that can be done.

[Jon-Hebert Barto]

Mark Twain-"...statistics are often used to lie to the public because most people do not understand how statistics work. "

 

 

Global warming is here. I know 'cause it's hotter than a motherf*cker out there. Still, I really want to drive a '69 Camaro. What can I say, I'm human.

 

Seriously, I just wanted to put a link up to amazon for a book about statistics. It was written a long time ago about mostly monetary benefits of tweaking numbers and making stats work in your favor even though they in "fact" go against an agenda you are trying to push.I thought most people on this thread might get a kick out of it. You can pick it up at used book stores for about $7. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/039331072...1648115?ie=UTF8

 

I do believe the current trend in global warming is caused by our group of mammals, however I've also read papers/articles that are complete fabrications in favor of the Human Cause. Doesn't make it less true...but why lie?

 

I don't see a good reason NOT to try and look forward to a cleaner Earth. This reminds me of a commercial in Texas. We love oil, not litter, hehehe. The advert goes like this...

 

A biker pulls up to a stop light and throws a bag of used fast food fare on a geriatric woman. He then speeds off.....Narrator:" Would you treat your mother like this?" Stupid but funny. :lol:

 

-Jon-Hebert

Edited July 21, 2006 by BARCA

[Hal Smith]

This reminds me of a commercial in Texas. We love oil, not litter, hehehe. The advert goes like this...

A biker pulls up to a stop light and throws a bag of used fast food fare on a geriatric woman. He then speeds off.....Narrator:" Would you treat your mother like this?" Stupid but funny. :lol:

-Jon-Hebert

I knew George W. Bush was a Texan, I didn't know he was also a biker.

[timHealy]

how many stories does one have to read to understand we are contributing the warming of the planet. How much smog does one need to see over LA or NY let alone Bejing or other parts of the world? We need to change the way we live or it will be changed for us. Maybe not tomorrow or next year, but someday.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060722/ap_on_sc/marine_crisis

 

Best

 

Tim

[Robert Hughes]

Stupid but funny. laugh.gif

-Jon-Hebert

 

I knew George W. Bush was a Texan, I didn't know he was also a biker.

I dunno, he never struck me as very funny either.

[Jon-Hebert Barto]

I dunno, he never struck me as very funny either.

 

 

Thats because he writes his own jokes. For some reason he never wanted to use Steven Colberts...? :D

[Alessandro Machi]

Again, there's been a ONE DEGREE raise in temperatures in the last 100 years.

That's what all this hoopla is all about.

 

 

Although two posts above your reply I clearly addressed that issue, it's MORE than one degree.

 

Anyways, Woodland Hills Ca was 119 yesterday, the hottest temperature ever recorded, Southern California broke several dozen temperature records yesterday.

[David Mullen ASC]

Even if it's only one degree, that's on average -- the fluctuations can be greater at the poles where most of the world's ice is, and the more ice that turns to water, the more sunlight will be absorbed than reflected, the faster the ice melts, etc. So a one degree change is fairly significant and can have increasingly dramatic effects over time.

 

Very few scientists don't believe global warming is happening. The real debate is more whether it is human caused, and whether modifications in human behavior can slow it down, and even with that debate, it's not like it's a 50/50 split among scientists. And not surprisingly, a number of the scientistics who don't believe humans are contributing to the greenhouse effect are funded partially by oil companies...

 

It's like thirty years ago when the tobacco industry trotted out expert after expert to say that there was no conclusive link between smoking and lung cancer, in order to plant the seed of doubt in the public's mind and make them think there was a real debate going on.

 

Or when creationists dig up scientists to tout their intelligent design nonsense and give the public the false impression that scientists are roughly split in half regarding evolution versus intelligent design.

 

The media is mostly to blame... by turning every discussion into a debate between two representatives of each side, giving legitimacy to the fringe element and the false impression that there are a large number of dissenting scientists.

[timHealy]

giving legitimacy to the fringe element

 

ahh like when fox news gives Ann Coulter the opportunity to spew her venom month after month. don't mean to change the subject.

 

But I believe Hurricane Katrina really picked up steam last year after it passed Florida and hit unusally warm waters in the Gulf. I think it was more than 1 degree perhaps several, but all of this is all connected. In NY this summer we have been having severe heat thunderstorms in the evening. Typically we can have those during the hottest parts of late July and early August. This year they have been occuring since the beginning of June and one of the early ones included the wildest lighting storm I have ever seem in NYC.

 

Best

 

Tim

[Andy_Alderslade]

Even if you doubt global warming, responsible treatment of the enviroment is vital.

 

Every now and again the skeletons jump back out of the closet, and always with tragic consequences.

 

Consider in London in the early 1950s, no regulations on emissions caused pollution to mix with a low level winter fog, resulting in a killer 'smog.'

 

12 000 people were killed by it, including by asfixiation.

[Tom Bays]

don't drive so fast. Most place don't even pay attention to speed limits if they have them at all. We like to complain and act environmental only when convenient.

 

we are getting so hysterical with the global warming push that people don't even try.

[John Pytlak RIP]

we are getting so hysterical with the global warming push that people don't even try.

 

As I wrote, the closing credits on "An Inconvenient Truth" outline "little" ways we can all help reduce global warming. I've already replaced most of the tungsten lightbulbs in my home with compact fluorescents. My A/C is almost always set above 80F. I've installed a high efficiency furnace, and upgraded my weather stripping and insulation. Although my vehicles are all efficient four cylinder models, I definitely plan on getting a hybrid vehicle next time. I pay a voluntary surcharge for "green" wind power, available in New York State. My pool has a solar heater. Etc.

 

Those wind turbines being built on the hills southeast of Rochester are actually beginning to look nice. ;)

 

To begin a journey, you need to take the first step.

[Guest]

"To begin a journey, you need to take the first step."

 

My question is this: If Al Gore was president would he simply outlaw the sale and manufacture of SUVs?

 

If not, why not?

 

Isn't clean air more important than having a 17 ton vehicle to drive to Walmart with?

 

Yes I realize this is some what of a silly scenario. But how silly is it really? Governments have outlawed smoking in public areas in many states, a move thought crazy in the 1970s.

 

R,

[Tom Bays]

:)

As I wrote, the closing credits on "An Inconvenient Truth" outline "little" ways we can all help reduce global warming. I've already replaced most of the tungsten lightbulbs in my home with compact fluorescents. My A/C is almost always set above 80F. I've installed a high efficiency furnace, and upgraded my weather stripping and insulation. Although my vehicles are all efficient four cylinder models, I definitely plan on getting a hybrid vehicle next time. I pay a voluntary surcharge for "green" wind power, available in New York State. My pool has a solar heater. Etc.

 

Those wind turbines being built on the hills southeast of Rochester are actually beginning to look nice. ;)

 

To begin a journey, you need to take the first step.

 

But kill enough birds in those turbines it is going to cost a pretty penny to repair them. :(

[Andy_Alderslade]

The thing is though its getting worse, SUVs are getting increasingly popular here in London too, in west-london they are so popular they are called 'The Chelsea Tractor.'

 

And in a sequel to the London Smog story, it happened again in 1991, but this time caused by traffic polution. Though this it only killed a few hundred old people...

[Alessandro Machi]

119 degrees in Woodland Hills, is there an actual temperature in which we all would agree something is going on? I mean if the temperature had hit 130, or 135, would some people still be saying global warming is not happening?

 

At what temperature in Woodland Hills, CA does it have to get to before those who don't believe in global warming concede something is going on?

 

If peoples attics got so hot that they spontaneously combusted, we probably would all agree that global warming was going on. Perhaps the problem would instantly be alleviated if all the places we lived in suddenly went up in flames, in mass, since the instant reduction in electricity use would help reduce energy consumption significantly.

 

So for some, it's never a problem, crank up the AC until there's no home left to crank it up in. Kind of like putting a frog in normal water and then slowly bringing it to boil, apparently the frog doesn't really notice the water getting warmer and they don't bother to jump out, ever, I guess we may end up behaving the same way.

[David Mullen ASC]

My question is this: If Al Gore was president would he simply outlaw the sale and manufacture of SUVs?

 

Well, just for starters he wouldn't have allowed all those tax incentives to small businesses to buy trucks and SUV's, and he would have increased the tax incentive for buying smaller, low-emissions vehicles. The carrot instead of the stick approach.

 

The Bush government actually rewarded people for buying SUV's, as if they needed the help.

 

You can't really make SUV's illegal, but you can raise mileage and emission standards that SUV's would naturally have trouble meeting.

[Michael Collier]

119 degrees in Woodland Hills, is there an actual temperature in which we all would agree something is going on? I mean if the temperature had hit 130, or 135, would some people still be saying global warming is not happening?

 

Well, I remember about 5 or 10 years back all the anti-global warming people swore up and down that not only was it not happening, it wasn't even getting warmer. Now I think even the most conservative have conceded that yes, it is indeed getting warmer very fast (1 degree in 30 years is really fast considering the size of our planet, and how much water there is) now the argument is weather people are to blame (because global warming increase is likley to be natural causes just at the same time that man increases CO2 levels to higher than they have ever been in the known history of the world.) coincidence is a great thing to fall back on for some.

 

I think this change is the true proof of a real global warming event. Changing their opinion is harder than changing the worlds tempature back where it was.

[David Mullen ASC]

Now I think even the most conservative have conceded that yes, it is indeed getting warmer very fast (1 degree in 30 years is really fast considering the size of our planet, and how much water there is) now the argument is weather people are to blame (because global warming increase is likley to be natural causes just at the same time that man increases CO2 levels to higher than they have ever been in the known history of the world.) coincidence is a great thing to fall back on for some.

 

When that argument falls, their next one will be to name all the benefits from global warming, like a sea route through the North Pole and farming in northern Greenland and Canada...