Lets talk Gobo's! :)

[Freya Black]

 

The full title strongly supports that statement...

 

"UV Band Pass Glass"

 

Ooops! Too late in the evening! ;)

 

Thought it looked dark in the photo.

Could be useful for a tanning salon I guess! :)

 

Freya

Edited September 18, 2015 by Freya Black

[Freya Black]

 

Are you sure you want a dichroic filter? It a tiny fixture, do you realize how much output you;ll be loosing?

 

https://www.rosco.com/filters/permacolor.cfm

 

That link claims light transmission is better than for gel.

How much output would I lose?

The glass I'm planning to test looks clear but I guess there could still be more light loss than it seems.

 

Freya

[Gregg MacPherson]

 

Well I just bought the mankiest old fresnel light ever. It's a 650w thing from the 60's......

C-stands. I think I only ever saw one in real life once here in the UK maybe twice. .....

Thus I end up clipping flags to chairs, microphone stands and whatever else I can think of!

I've never seen second hand c-stands for sale. :(

 

 

It may sound a bit ironic, but C-stands enable a lot of improvisation. I mean the arm on the stand. If you just have the arm you can fit that on a light stand or anything else with a spigot.

 

It may be that old C-stands aren't often for sale in the UK. You just have to get creative and observant. For example, the chrome plated ones can get surface rust. Too ugly to rent?

[Adrian Sierkowski]

 

That link claims light transmission is better than for gel.

How much output would I lose?

The glass I'm planning to test looks clear but I guess there could still be more light loss than it seems.

 

Freya

It generally is better to go Dichrotic glass -v- CTB-- however they are more expensive and more fragile; but in an output way-- yes, Dichrotics cut much less light than does full CTO

[Freya Black]

It generally is better to go Dichrotic glass -v- CTB-- however they are more expensive and more fragile; but in an output way-- yes, Dichrotics cut much less light than does full CTO

 

Perhaps JD means I don't want to be using colour filters at all given the output of the little lights.

He might have a point there although I intend to play with them perhaps as a prelude to getting a larger fixture.

I won't know hat I can do with them till I try tho.

 

They do come with some cheap dichroic glass in a few plain colours anyway and I now suspect that this explains the non standard 50mm gobos as there is 50mm glass out there for everyday kinda spots. I've found what appears to be clear dichroic glass that I'm going to try engraving too.

 

Freya

[Freya Black]

 

It may sound a bit ironic, but C-stands enable a lot of improvisation. I mean the arm on the stand. If you just have the arm you can fit that on a light stand or anything else with a spigot.

 

It may be that old C-stands aren't often for sale in the UK. You just have to get creative and observant. For example, the chrome plated ones can get surface rust. Too ugly to rent?

 

No you don't understand, there really are no c-stands. I've been looking for a long time. Years and years.

You just gave me an idea to search somewhere more obscure tho, where I found the only entry for c-stands was a "WANTED: C-STANDS" ad.

 

Actually I'm a little shocked because today someone is selling a c-stand for only £60 on e-bay. (More than 3 times what I just paid for that fresnel) Of course it is collection only from somewhere far away and obscure.

 

It sounds like I should get one of these arms tho. Now that is a good suggestion. :)

Phil do you have a link to the combo stands you are using?

 

Freya

[Freya Black]

I guess this is the gobo arm?

Also looking like a very pricey import from the states.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DMKFoto-Reflector-Holding-Arm-with-Gobo-Grip-Head-for-Studio-Photography-/380997276000?hash=item58b5351160

[Freya Black]

Now we are getting somewhere!

How about this!

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Phot-R-Collapsible-Reflector-Holder-Arm-Photo-Studio-Disc-Reflector-Light-Stand-/261819308739?hash=item3cf5a59ac3

 

What do you all think?

Maybe I can start using my microphone boom stands for microphones!

 

Freya

[Freya Black]

I think this one looks better because of the double clamp:

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HWASTUDIO-Double-Clamp-Studio-Extendable-Reflector-Holder-Support-Arm-boom-arm-/281683595350?hash=item4195a69056

[Freya Black]

I think the most important part is the gobo head. At least it seems that way.

If you are in the states this seems like a great deal:

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/IMPACT-KCP-200-2-5-GRIP-HEAD-LOOK-/161696278826?hash=item25a5d9692a

 

They don't ship internationally sadly but I have a feeling there will be a big difference between these metal gobo heads and the plastic ones available to the UK.

 

Maybe this will help someone here tho!

 

Freya

Edited September 18, 2015 by Freya Black

[Phil Rhodes]

Those reflector arms are a lot more lightweight than a real gobo arm, but they perform broadly the same function. Microphone stands, in my experience, tend to work poorly because the little legs fold up and it all collapses (great minds think alike, though). Yes, it was frustrating to walk up to a huge steel cart full of C-stands and every kind of 4x4, finger and dot you can imagine at the Mole stage in LA recently, express drooling admiration, and have all the Americans go "...but this is just normal stuff you get every time, right?"

 

No. No, it isn't. People have a very very odd idea of what's normal in the UK. This is why so much British stuff looks so terrible. Anyway, I digress.

 

I have two of these and two of these. I need to buy essentially that again, and I'll be getting somewhere useful. They're not terrifically cheap, but they're a less than the equivalent Matthews types (sorry, guys, but in the UK I will never get a rental for them so I can't justify the good stuff). About the only downside is that the pop-up baby pin doesn't automatically spring up when released - on the larger stands there's a rather approximate bit of metalwork pressed into place to act as a T-bar to do up the clamp. But it works. They combined the postage and offered a small discount for a purchase of four, so make a point of asking.

 

P

[Gregg MacPherson]

This is what I call(ed) a C-stand with a gobo arm. The clamp fitted to the top of the stand is normally called a grip head. The arm, with it's own clamp, fits to that.

http://www.msegrip.com/product/stands-1/c-stands/40-c-stand-w-sliding-leg-includes-grip-head-arm-756-series.html

 

If you have the grip head and arm you can fit it to any light stand with a suitable spigot. I would try for the complete C-stand with arm and stick to Mathews, Avenger, don't know the other American ones, maybe the Chinese clones if you have to.

 

I had a quick google before and C-Stands rent cheap in London, 10Pound/day, 30Pound/week. Maybe some will filter down into private ownership?

In the olden days there were film co-operatives or artists collectives and the myth of owning everything oneself wasn't so strong. C-stands are tough, safe to share, lend or borrow.

[JD Hartman]

It generally is better to go Dichrotic glass -v- CTB-- however they are more expensive and more fragile; but in an output way-- yes, Dichrotics cut much less light than does full CTO

 

 

The double Jeopardy category is gobos, not filters, be they glass or gelatin. . While anything placed between a light and the "target" is a gobo, I thought the discussion is pattern projections or light breakups I didn't think the desired result was a change is color temperature or light color.

[Freya Black]

The metal weight base mic stands are better. I've had good experiences with them but I'm used to using all kinds of nonsense.

I'm getting excited that I'm reaching a point where work lights are going to be playing a lesser part in things!

Inventor of the LED I thank you! ;)

 

Freya

[Freya Black]

 

 

The double Jeopardy category is gobos, not filters, be they glass or gelatin. . While anything placed between a light and the "target" is a gobo, I thought the discussion is pattern projections or light breakups I didn't think the desired result was a change is color temperature or light color.

 

I'm using the black metal gobos. You are right tho I would really like to play with the rosco colourizers too but there are two problems, one they cost a bomb, two I would need a proper fixture for that because of the light output and so I could use standard b size gobos. It seems like it would be far easier to use a video projector for tht kind of thing and way, way cheaper.

 

With the little ikea lights I'm planning to use the metal gobos and maybe gels or the dichroic one colour glass you get with them, s

 

Freya

[Freya Black]

This is what I call(ed) a C-stand with a gobo arm. The clamp fitted to the top of the stand is normally called a grip head. The arm, with it's own clamp, fits to that.

http://www.msegrip.com/product/stands-1/c-stands/40-c-stand-w-sliding-leg-includes-grip-head-arm-756-series.html

 

 

Is there anything special about the gobo arm. It just seems like a metal rod and I have a couple of those but maybe the diameter allows you to add special things?

 

Freya

[Phil Rhodes]

The arm usually has a clamp on one end.

 

 

 

C-Stands rent cheap in London, 10Pound/day, 30Pound/week. Maybe some will filter down into private ownership?

 

Theoretically, yes. However, by the time you've organised a rental, paid for insurance, transported them...

 

I doubt most places would tolerate someone just renting stands.

 

The rods are 5/8" in diameter, as I recall. There's a massive grip place I've been in, in LA, where they just have racks and racks of this stuff lying around, including miles of 5/8" steel tube.

 

 

P

[Freya Black]

The arm usually has a clamp on one end.

 

 

 

You mean in addition to the grip head?

A clamp of some kind at the other end to hold things?

What is this called?

 

Freya

[Freya Black]

This is what I call(ed) a C-stand with a gobo arm. The clamp fitted to the top of the stand is normally called a grip head. The arm, with it's own clamp, fits to that.

http://www.msegrip.com/product/stands-1/c-stands/40-c-stand-w-sliding-leg-includes-grip-head-arm-756-series.html

 

If you have the grip head and arm you can fit it to any light stand with a suitable spigot. I would try for the complete C-stand with arm and stick to Mathews, Avenger, don't know the other American ones, maybe the Chinese clones if you have to.

 

Gregg, was starting to wonder if you have shares in these companies :) but I'm glad you mentioned Matthews because I might be able to get Matthews grip heads for a good price and I suspect this is a really important part. I have a feeling the ABS ones are good value for ocassional use but won't last. Now I saw your picture and now want to know what the clamp at the end of the arm is called.

 

Freya

[Freya Black]

Wait the other end is another grip head right?

Also I notice there are grip heads in different sizes too.

Can anyone help me out and explain what the different sizes of grip heads are about?

 

Thanks!

 

Freya

[Gregg MacPherson]

 

......want to know what the clamp at the end of the arm is called.

 

 

I think it's the same casting as a grip head, but it's permanantly fitted to the tube.

I only know the basic grip head and arm with 2-1/2" round clamps.

[Phil Rhodes]

There is nothing particularly clever about a grip head or a C-stand, it's just the approach that happened to have been adopted. The grip head is arranged such that it can clamp flat objects (with cork or rubber buffers) or various diameters of tube, while simultaneously allowing rotational adjustment. It's not uncommon to see several such arms clamped together in various perhaps-slightly-rickety configurations to put things in specific places.

 

P

[Gregg MacPherson]

There is nothing particularly clever about a grip head or a C-stand, it's just the approach that happened to have been adopted.

 

 

What system or design would be better, in your view?

[Freya Black]

I actually really like the legs on a c-stand and think that bit is clever.

 

I think Phil is just saying that these things just evolved that way to be practical tho, they could have ended up different.

 

Freya

[Edward Lawrence Conley III]

The C-Stand arm has a 2 1/2" Grip head at one end but instead of the T-handle it is secured by an allen screw.

 

This arm then slides through another 2 1/2" grip head which uses a T-handle that mounts on to the C-Stand riser top which is a baby size = 5/8".

 

The shaft of a C-Stand arm is 5/8" as well. This is Tube not solid round stock so as to keep the weight down and we don't really need a solid rod.

 

The C-Stands are "clever" in that they have a small footprint where regular light stands will take up more floor space due to how their legs spread out. They stack nicely and fold up to fit on carts that can hold 20 at a time.