Why LA?

[JD Hartman]

The H-1 is obtained as a specialty worker in the IT industry, something Freya sated she has skills in. Not the film industry. It's done all the time, I know at least 25 Brits, Aussies, Kiwi who all have come over on an H-1 (IT workers) and stayed. There's several enclaves of British ex-pats on Long Island, NY She pays her dues and then moves on.

 

Maybe she won't be "volunteering" on the next multimillion dollar blockbuster shooting in New York, but she won't be idle either. Lots of other shoots, big and small going on.

[Phil Rhodes]

Yes, it's quite possible to get a work permit for full-time employment. Still not easy, and bothj complex and expensive for the company concerned, but quite possible.

 

What's much more difficult is turning that into settled status.

 

P

[JD Hartman]

And you know this first hand? You are making these statements based on facts and hard data from how many co-workers, friends and acquaintance's?

[John E Clark]

 

Gets caught, gets thrown out of the country...

 

If it were easy, I'd have long since done it.

 

P

 

I agree... it is difficult to get various 'work' visas, and even in the case of 'marry a US Citizen', it is not a cake walk... the citizen has to show they are financially capable... over some number of years, via tax returns, employment history, etc... further, one is interrogated over a period of months, and heaven help you if you don't know the 'intimate' details of your spouse's behavior.

 

In the "IT" world there is a lot of concern about the employment of various foreign tech people and offering less than average pay, despite some controls on the offer, such as 'must be with in a certain percentage of some 'average''... but how does one calculate that average... 'entry level'... for someone who has been working in IT in their home country for years??? Or even taking such things in consideration always low balling the offer to the lowest 'legal' value...

 

And... there is discrimination against 'single females'... no matter their tech c.v.

[Phil Rhodes]

And you know this first hand?

 

It's all in the rule book. And yes, I could, but certainly won't, give you half a dozen names of people who've done it, and many dozens of people who would like to but haven't, who can't all be idiots.

[Guest]

Since there are a bazzilion foreign nationals that want to move to Hollywood and pursue the glory of it all. The forum should pay for a full-time member of the INS to give answers here.

 

There have been hundreds of debates on this forum regarding how to work in the USA in film. Everyone is an expert and no one agrees with the other persons theory on how to do it.

 

R,

[Adrian Sierkowski]

Marriage with INS involvement is a barrel of laughs! Especially the paperwork-- if you haven't ever seen it: it's basically this:

Though I will say marriage and/or being with "another" when trying to get a start off in the industry can be very helpful in terms of a support network you'll certainly need. There is the chance that 1) they will be working at something and 2) a room is now 1/2 the price. Though you have to stand them

 

In any case, i think that at least the marriage gives you the benefit of some savings tax wise anyway ;)

[Landon D. Parks]

However, I would point out that "volunteering" is readily recognised by the authorities as a very obvious attempted workaround for immigration law.

 

P

 

Not to mention the fact that under US Law, there is no such thing as 'volunteer' for any sort of for-profit venture. Legally, anyway. The only way one can 'volunteer' ones time legally is if such volunteer work does not displace a regular worker, and the work is conducted for a nonprofit entity. Even 'volunteering' to help a friend make a movie is not really legal, even if a legal entity is not involved. Under the law, you're still being 'employed' by your friend - unless you plan to form a partnership and go that route - which would require a different visa, and the filing of tax forms.

 

Not to say that people don't try it, and probably get by with it regularly... But talking from a purely LEGAL stand point...

 

Oh, and PS) You know how earlier I was talking up Ohio as this great wonderland? I take it all back... I'm moving my a** to California. Nothing like walking out your door in the middle of April and getting hit in the face with ice-rain.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Landon D. Parks

[Adrian Sierkowski]

It's raining today in LA as well-- which generally means-- greyish skies and soft beautiful lighting.

[Guest]

 

Not to mention the fact that under US Law, there is no such thing as 'volunteer' for any sort of for-profit venture. Legally, anyway. The only way one can 'volunteer' ones time legally is if such volunteer work does not displace a regular worker, and the work is conducted for a nonprofit entity. Even 'volunteering' to help a friend make a movie is not really legal, even if a legal entity is not involved. Under the law, you're still being 'employed' by your friend - unless you plan to form a partnership and go that route - which would require a different visa, and the filing of tax forms.

 

Not to say that people don't try it, and probably get by with it regularly... But talking from a purely LEGAL stand point...

 

What did I just say!!! :D

 

Cue the INS rep.....INS rep can you please chime in?

 

R,

[JD Hartman]

Interning In NYC for a film production company is illegal too, unless you are getting training and course credit. Guess how many times those laws are violated with no consequence?

[Landon D. Parks]

Interning In NYC for a film production company is illegal too, unless you are getting training and course credit. Guess how many times those laws are violated with no consequence?

 

Right, I'm not saying it doesn't happen. Such things happen all the time, and rarely is anything ever done about. I mentioned that much in my post. I simply wanted to point out that from a legal standpoint, it's illegal - and anyone doing such a thing is always at risk of being found out. Chances are they won't and everything will be fine, but then chances are I won't die from a lighting strike - yet I'm not going to go out in a thunderstorm with a lighting rod attached to my head either.

 

Hell, even in the theatre company I use to run we employed independent contractors in areas were, legally, they would not have been considered as such. Most theaters do this. Most no-budget films do it. In fact, I'd most arts-related organizations, profit or non-profit, partake in volunteers and employee miss-classifications.

 

Though the penalties of getting caught are worse if you're here on a visa. An American Citizen might face heavy fines and lawsuit (only if you're the one misclassifying) - where someone here on a Visa caught 'working under the table', will likely find themselves deported and never allowed back into the country (regardless of which end of the scheme they are on). So it's more risky for foreigners here than it is citizens to get caught in such a scheme.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Landon D. Parks

[Robin R Probyn]

America and Eritrea are the only two countries that tax their citizens where ever they live on earth.. not sure I would rush to become one ..

[Freya Black]

Thanks to everyone who has argued in this thread and discussed this for me.

I'm short on 'leccy right now so can't post much about the idea myself but everyone here has been doing a great job at covering all kinds of ground. So that's really useful. Not sure how I feel about the attempts to marry me off in order to get into Hollywood tho but there we are! ;)

 

Made me smile which is always a good thing.

 

Freya

[JD Hartman]

 

Right, I'm not saying it doesn't happen. Such things happen all the time, and rarely is anything ever done about. I mentioned that much in my post. I simply wanted to point out that from a legal standpoint, it's illegal - and anyone doing such a thing is always at risk of being found out. Chances are they won't and everything will be fine, but then chances are I won't die from a lighting strike - yet I'm not going to go out in a thunderstorm with a lighting rod attached to my head either.

 

Hell, even in the theatre company I use to run we employed independent contractors in areas were, legally, they would not have been considered as such. Most theaters do this. Most no-budget films do it. In fact, I'd most arts-related organizations, profit or non-profit, partake in volunteers and employee miss-classifications.

 

Though the penalties of getting caught are worse if you're here on a visa. An American Citizen might face heavy fines and lawsuit (only if you're the one misclassifying) - where someone here on a Visa caught 'working under the table', will likely find themselves deported and never allowed back into the country (regardless of which end of the scheme they are on). So it's more risky for foreigners here than it is citizens to get caught in such a scheme.

 

No risk, no reward. How would a person volunteering on a short, student film, music video, etc. get "caught"? I can't see the INS or the IRS agents swooping down on a film set, ever. What would they be accused of, charged with? Entering the country under false pretenses? They are gainfully employed by the company as stated on their H-1 application. They are doing this for fun. They pay their dues in their day job, move from work visa to being sponsored for permanent residence status. I've seen it played out, again and again.

 

Under the strict interpretation of the law, we'd have no volunteer movement in the US at all. Charitable organizations/not for profits would cease to exist.

Edited April 8, 2016 by JD Hartman

[Guest]

If only we had that INS representative here to debate the immigration officials we already have on this site.

 

R,

[Phil Rhodes]

I'm not sure it's even called the INS anymore.

[Guest]

Ok now they are called, ICE, it would appear:

 

https://www.ice.gov/about

 

R,

[Landon D. Parks]

 

No risk, no reward. How would a person volunteering on a short, student film, music video, etc. get "caught"? I can't see the INS or the IRS agents swooping down on a film set, ever. What would they be accused of, charged with?

 

Well, it's not really like that. Rather you're a foreign or not, the way it would general work is like this: Joe Grip injures his leg on your set. You have no insurance to cover him. He files a workers comp claim with the state, who finds that you are not a registered employer. Boom. Second way is you run into someone who you piss off on set and wants to 'get' you, and happens to know the law or know someone who does. They talk to the Department of Labor, and Boom. Less of a concern for films and more for businesses is the random audits conducted by the state. That is how several community theatres in Washington State where nabbed, through random audits (see: http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Midsize-theater-groups-facing-fines-from-state-1174527.php

 

So I don't want to put a stopper in progress, But there ARE ways they can find out, and it's not really that hard. Not saying I'd worry about it or not take the risk, just know that it IS a risk - and risk that could cost you a lot of money. If you're not here on a visa you would face no penalties, the person 'employing' you would. However, if you're here on a visa - taking ANY kind of payment or even non-payed work not authorized under the Visa could get you kicked out.

Edited April 8, 2016 by Landon D. Parks

[John E Clark]

 

No risk, no reward. How would a person volunteering on a short, student film, music video, etc. get "caught"? I can't see the INS or the IRS agents swooping down on a film set, ever. What would they be accused of, charged with?

 

 

The problem is this... 1) for the H1 and related limited work visas, the visa holder is only authorized to work for the employer upon which the visa was issued... so no, in general 'volunteering' for other 'work opportunities' would be classified as illegal...

 

There are a few categories of volunteering that would be allowed, and the general restriction is that if the position was not a paid position in the first place, then the volunteering would be legal.. that is 'no US citizen or Permanent Resident' would loose a job opportunity by the volunteer work provided.

 

Many church organizations have volunteer work for which there is absolutely no expectation of pay... Other non-profits may have a cadre of volunteer categories for which there is no pay.

 

Since most student films are totally below the 'radar' no matter what... sure, probably 'get away with it', and if 'caught', could claim that the activity did not displace any form of US worker in the least.

 

In any case there would be lawyering to be done to prevent deportation...

 

Not to be political... but here in So. Cal, and most of the southern border states we have a lot of people who may not have official work visas... each year some number get caught, some number of 'sweeps' occur, and net some number of people...

 

Now... in terms of 'profiling'... a northern european looking person, in all likelihood would not be 'swept' up, unless there was a specific operation to target say 'canadians' or the like... A southern european... possibly.

 

Where most europeans are 'found' is at the ports of entry... for example here in San Diego area, if a foreign national goes to Tijuana Mexico, they may have problems reentering the US... depending on their visa and status. (Happened to a german teacher before she got her Permanent Resident visa... and at Dulles for Swedish friend whose student visa had expired... etc.).

[Guest]

If you're not here on a visa you would face no penalties, the person 'employing' you would. However, if you're here on a visa - taking ANY kind of payment or even non-payed work not authorized under the Visa could get you kicked out.

 

Again....you are not an employee of the US immigration service, so how do you feel qualified in making such comments Landon?

 

R,

[Guest]

but here in So. Cal, and most of the southern border states we have a lot of people who may not have official work visas... each year some number get caught, some number of 'sweeps' occur, and net some number of people...

 

Oh I know, they raid the offices of banks and other major corporations and discover that half the executives are Canadians that snuck into the USA.

 

R,

[Landon D. Parks]

 

Again....you are not an employee of the US immigration service, so how do you feel qualified in making such comments Landon?

 

R,

 

Because, as part of my minor in business law we had to understand work visa immigration issues, that is how. I know very well the different forms of work vs. non-work visas, and what the penalties are for violation of those visas, both as it applies to the business and the person being employed.

 

I can tell you (though since I'm not an attorney, this is not legal advice): When you are here on any kind of Visa, you are here under very strict rules regarding what activities you can and cannot partake in. It's true that a pure 'volunteer' situation while here under a certain Visa might well be disregarded, but only if that was a TRUE volunteer position in a bonafide legal company capable of hiring volunteers - which films are not. When the dominoes fall, they all tend to fall.

 

For example, if you're here on a student visa, you cannot perform any work that might displace a paid employee without applying for a work visa. Similar rules apply to Work Visas - in that you're only allowed to do the work described in the Visa application. Sure, you can volunteer for a nonprofit, but only under the regular volunteer conditions - that your work does not displace any regular employee of the nonprofit. Volunteering on a film set, despite the fact the film set is not even a nonprofit environment, volunteering as a DP would certainly classify as displacing an actual DP who could be paid to work on that production otherwise.

 

What I am saying here is: Be careful when it comes to business law, especially when immigration law comes into play. the US Government does not care who you are, or how small you are. They WILL take you down if they find you violating any laws, and you won't get any special treatment.

 

PS) You will not find any employee of ICE who will offer you any legal immigration advice. Only attorney's can offer that advice, much like court clerks are not allowed to offer you legal advice. So unless you can find an immigration attorney willing to chime in here, my non-legal advice based on my experience in school will have to do. Now if someone more experienced than me want's to come forward and offer an opinion - by all means.

Edited April 8, 2016 by Landon D. Parks

[Landon D. Parks]

As further justification, if it is actually needed, here is an excerpt USCIS regarding volunteering while on a visa:

 

The following describes the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Service (USCIS) interpretation of the concept of “work” versus “volunteering”.

 

A foreign national cannot perform work as a volunteer in a position that would normally be a paid position or if the foreign national believes that some form of compensation will follow.

The U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Service (USCIC) views such volunteering as “work” and requires proper employment authorization issued by that agency.

This specifically includes volunteering by a foreign national for a trial period leading up to compensated employment.

This also:

 

 

The employment is unauthorized as long as the alien derives any benefit from it. (Lawrence J. Weinig, INS Deputy Assistant Commissioner for Adjudications, 66 NO. 19 Interpreter Releases 539).

 

So, be careful. Did Joe Director reimburse you for your gas driving to set? Give you money to help pay for your meal that day? Opps.

Edited April 8, 2016 by Landon D. Parks

[Guest]

Now if someone more experienced than me want's to come forward and offer an opinion - by all means.

 

I was wondering if I could send you my recent medical tests and have you give me your expert opinion?

 

R,

 

I will say this....you and Tyler are quite the pair when it comes to your knowledge of well....everything, LOL