Premium Member Stephen Perera Posted March 26, 2018 Premium Member Share Posted March 26, 2018 Hi all, a continuance of the thread but this time with the Telecine they sent me. I want to know how bad/standard/great the Telecine is...... I have saved as a smaller file but visually the same perceivable quality as the file they sent me.....I have also colour corrected the hue......this is a test roll I shot on location with a 100ft roll of Vision3 500T. Camera is an Aaton XTR XC (no electronics at all) and Cooke Varokinetal 9-50mm lens...shot in standard 16mm My comments I cant believe for a second the footage was that dirty in camera......there's an abnormal amount of 'debri' and flashes in the roll......BUT of course I stand to be corrected and would appreciate anything and everything you can think of....... Link1 (original Telecine) Password 'crystal' https://vimeo.com/261796993 I run the footage in Photoshop and cleaned up all the debris etc then saved it as a .dpx file for DaVinci Resolve. The good news is the client loved the retro vibe and I have green light to shoot the project on 16mm as I planned....he said 'the look reminds me of Taxi Driver when De Niro was driving around at night and the camera was on him'......cool with that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Dunn Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 (edited) Lots of what I think are handling faults in processing- the diagonal blue-green scuffs- and some flashes or low density which could be light leaks at either end- you or the lab. I think you're fortunate that the client likes it- flaws like this tend to get added to clean video to make them look like old film! I wouldn't be happy going back to that lab, but the irony is that a perfectly clean process wouldn't look like what your client has approved! Was this shot on 100' rolls? I ask because some of the scuffs look like defective processing due to contact between winds as if it was processed on a spiral. Edited March 26, 2018 by Mark Dunn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Stephen Perera Posted March 26, 2018 Author Premium Member Share Posted March 26, 2018 (edited) thanks a lot for taking to time to watch this......this was a 100ft roll yes......the light leaks cant imagine how it could be me as I never took the lens off to check for hairs and i taped the magazine big time!!!!!! I also cant imagine it being a fault of the changing tent when i took the film out and put it in the box...... YES the client commented that he loved the 'flashes' and stuff......another friend at home whom i showed it too said wow really cool film filters u added hahahah...then i told him it was REAL film ...should I send the roll to another lab with a Sprint instead of the Tobin used to Telecine it and see how it compares.....??? i guess I could also ask to see like 10 secs of 2k and see how it all compares.....the opening scene of the man would be the perfect segment to test...... Edited March 26, 2018 by Stephen Perera Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Stephen Perera Posted March 26, 2018 Author Premium Member Share Posted March 26, 2018 This is the edit I showed the client: https://youtu.be/tjaD7L3EkR8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Dunn Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 It's your call, but there are certainly problems in the processing- since your paying customer is happy paying for what is effectively a test, why not try to get the best result you can- elsewhere? You'll be set up for next time. There shouldn't be any physical flaws in processing, beyond the odd dust speck or hair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Stephen Perera Posted March 26, 2018 Author Premium Member Share Posted March 26, 2018 Hey Mark......for sure need to send the 100ft roll somewhere else get a comparison done......e.g. get the first 10 seconds done on the latest tech Telecine machine like the SPRINT (is that its name?) and 10secs 2k scan and 10 secs 4k can....... London is a good option for me as flights every day from Gibraltar-London and DHL is not expensive to use with a small 100ft case......can you recommend a lab in London or UK in general?????? I got this off Kodak.....but would they do a bespoke test for me like I want????? Kodak Film Lab London The Ken Adam Building, Pinewood Studios Pinewood Road, Iver Heath Buckinghamshire. SL0 0NH ....saying that there MUST be a latest tech lab in Spain.......OR I could send this to BOSTON to our friend!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Dunn Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 Kodak didn't reply to me when I was looking for sound transcription. I suspect they're only interested in big jobs. Can't help any further, I only know of Cinelab in Slough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Stephen Perera Posted March 26, 2018 Author Premium Member Share Posted March 26, 2018 yeah Cinelab in Slough is on my radar.....you dal with them? or should i ask....who do YOU send ur rolls to ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Sponsor Robert Houllahan Posted March 26, 2018 Site Sponsor Share Posted March 26, 2018 Looks like some kind of abrasion on the film, typically that will show up as a blue mark, or possibly some chemistry staining.. Also the scan is very problematic, there are interlacing artifacts visible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Dunn Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 (edited) yeah Cinelab in Slough is on my radar.....you dal with them? or should i ask....who do YOU send ur rolls to ? I haven't shot 16mm. since 1991, Super-8 since 2001 or any film at all since 2003. My last frame was the last flight of Concorde- Speedbird 002 on its way to Heathrow from my back garden in 2003. Edited March 26, 2018 by Mark Dunn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Dunn Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 (edited) Looks like some kind of abrasion on the film, typically that will show up as a blue mark, or possibly some chemistry staining.. Also the scan is very problematic, there are interlacing artifacts visible. I assume it couldn't be in-camera as it's diagonal- that's what makes me think lab handling, or rather mishandling. Edited March 26, 2018 by Mark Dunn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Collingwood Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 Lovely sequence. Reminds me of the intro to Twin Peaks. You managed to mask many of the processing issues in the edit. I'd definitely say bump up to a 2k scan to really see that 16mm shine. I've heard good things about Gauge Film but as I'm in the US, I send all my stuff to Gamma Ray. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Tyler Purcell Posted March 26, 2018 Premium Member Share Posted March 26, 2018 Honestly, I clicked the link before reading and I thought it was super 8. So there are a lot of issues... 1) The processing was botched. You can see on static shots the staining look in the background. To be honest, it looks like someone home-processed this footage, doesn't look like a lab did it at all. 2) Looks like film was taken out of the freezer right before use and there was moisture on it. 3) There is A LOT of frame wobble. Make sure your gate spring (right side of the gate) is working. There is also focus issues center of the frame which is very odd for an Aaton to produce, so I doubt that's your camera. 4) The telecine looks like it was done with a single CCD camera using a projector. I've done lots of telecine's that way and that's exactly what they look like. The clues are lack of vibrant colors, interlacing lines (3:2 pulldown), the frame wobble (used/old projectors wobble) and the focus changes which show the lack of decent frame support in the capturing movement. I'd for sure do a new scan first, but I don't think it will change much. I think most of the problems are baked in thanks to bad processing. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Stephen Perera Posted March 27, 2018 Author Premium Member Share Posted March 27, 2018 Thanks for all your comments and help...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Stephen Perera Posted March 27, 2018 Author Premium Member Share Posted March 27, 2018 (edited) Lovely sequence. Reminds me of the intro to Twin Peaks. You managed to mask many of the processing issues in the edit. I'd definitely say bump up to a 2k scan to really see that 16mm shine. I've heard good things about Gauge Film but as I'm in the US, I send all my stuff to Gamma Ray. thanks for the positive comments.....yes the client liked the dit i did as a proof of concept and it got the job approved so thats the main thing.....now i have to find the correct lab as clearly everyone is of the same opinion as I am that I didn't get back the quality I could have (regardless of my camera work and lighting) in processing/telecine...... am indeed going to check out Gauge Film lab in the UK....... Edited March 27, 2018 by Stephen Perera Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Sponsor Robert Houllahan Posted March 27, 2018 Site Sponsor Share Posted March 27, 2018 If some of the issues with the film are chemical stains a rewash in a ECN processor can take those out, obviously pressure marks in the emulsion cannot be fixed. It is a nice sequence and looks good considering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Stephen Perera Posted March 28, 2018 Author Premium Member Share Posted March 28, 2018 argh I really have to find a good lab in Spain cos sending out 500T film through airport X-rays etc etc to UK or US would be a hassle......esp with the paranoia of our modern world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Dunn Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 (edited) thanks for the positive comments.....yes the client liked the dit i did as a proof of concept and it got the job approved so thats the main thing.....now i have to find the correct lab as clearly everyone is of the same opinion as I am that I didn't get back the quality I could have (regardless of my camera work and lighting) in processing/telecine...... am indeed going to check out Gauge Film lab in the UK....... Gauge hand process in spirals. I suspect your lab did as well. You want a machine process, I think. Edited March 28, 2018 by Mark Dunn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Stephen Perera Posted March 29, 2018 Author Premium Member Share Posted March 29, 2018 Latest news is for the next rolls I'm going to use either: 1. Cinelab in London for processing film and 2k scanning on a Spirit.....have to think about airport xray machines for the 500T Im using.....if they did Phantom Thread I dare say they're good enough for me hahah 2. Or AugustusColor - Roma, Italia via my kodak supplier in Spain who represents them.....they have Telecine with Spirit or Arriscan at 2k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perry Paolantonio Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 If you're hand delivering film, take it as a carry-on and it'll be fine in the airport x-ray machines. It's the ones that scan checked bags that are more powerful and can mess up the film. If you're shipping it, you can buy special bags that are supposed to protect the film. Something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Domke-711-15B-Large-Filmguard-Black/dp/B00009USZ5 I've also seen plastic bags that are lead-lined, specifically for shipping, but i think those are much less common these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Collingwood Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 Never used them but seen incredible results from Ocho y Pico in Spain. http://ochoypico.com/en/ José Luis Villar gets all his stuff scanned there and the quality of his Super 8 films is pretty much the creme of the crop as far as Super 8 goes. Of course some of that is to deal with his Beaulieu camera but 16mm should really look amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Stephen Perera Posted April 1, 2018 Author Premium Member Share Posted April 1, 2018 thanks for everybody's comments, yes I know ocho y pico's work.....translated that means 'eight and a bit' haha...they really have nailed the quality of Super8mm that's for sure...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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