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Beaulieu 6008 Jumpy frame


Tyler Purcell
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So after doing a lot of tests recently, I decided to actually shoot an entire documentary mostly on super 8. My Elmo 1012S has worked well, but the lens isn't very crisp and the stability was never any good, even after spending a lot of work to get it good. So I decided to buy a better/higher end Super 8 camera with a better lens and hopefully better stability. 

I bought a 6008 from a reputable dealer used and it looks brand new. They said it was serviced and it had clearly been gone through, all the foam on the door is new and such, it's also very clean. 

Our first shoot results came back yesterday and it's very disappointing. Nearly all of the issues my Elmo has, this cameras has, outside of course of the crisper lens on the 6008. 

So I'm wondering what you guys think and if this is "normal" and/or an easy fix. If this were an Aaton or something, I'd be focused on the lateral film rail and any looseness in the pulldown assembly. I put a strobe on the pulldown, didn't see it jump, but its so small, it's hard to tell. 

Anyway, let me know what you think. 

 

 

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If the problem is the same as with your well made ELMO 1012, then the likely culprit these days is the cartridge.  KODAK has had a LOT of cartridge film transport issues over the past couple years......just way too much tension on the supply side when they are loaded at the factory.  I have opened some up, reloaded the film with sufficient slack so the film supply rotates around the stationary hub smoothly, and no issues.  

   Another thing that is quite helpful, for me anyways, is that between each cartridge, I wipe the film gate with silicone.  I use a soft white cotton flannel cloth that I have sprayed with Silicone spray [the type that doesn't harm plastics!], let it sit out for some time to allow all the propellant liquid to evaporate, and then keep this in a small zip lock bag.  I wipe the film gate and quides between cartridges, and even wipe the surface of the exposed film in the cartridge. I also check to see if there is too much film tension in the cartridge before I use it.    I depress the cartridge pressure plate with a small screwdriver in the wells so as not to mar the parts that touch the film, and then pull the film downward with a spare finger.  It should come down easily and if not, the film is too doggone tight!   Any film pull down, I then wind the core to take up that slack.

   As most people know or should know....Super 8mm cartridge film actually glides thru a narrow channel in the film gate of the cameras, one created by the gate, where by the cartridge pressure plate rests firmly on small nibs.  There isn't any high pressure on the film itself, actually it's usually gentle unless the film has a very thick film base, such as FOMA R-100, then there's more gate tension from pressure in the than small gap.  Some film unsteadiness is inherent in the design of the Super 8mm format, due to the cartridges, and the location of the pull down claw.  However, a properly working camera and a smooth running load of film in a cartridge should allow quite a steady image.....not perfect, but good.  

 Double check all variables, and IF the cartridge, let KODAK know.

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I am using my cartridges from stock. Mostly. How real are these troubles with today Kodak cartridges? Haven't they found the problem yet and resolved it?

The cause of super-8 jitter is either the cartridge is feeding to difficult or the pick-up drive of the camera has its friction too tight. Or are there other causes?

 

Edited by Andries Molenaar
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14 hours ago, Martin Baumgarten said:

If the problem is the same as with your well made ELMO 1012, then the likely culprit these days is the cartridge.  KODAK has had a LOT of cartridge film transport issues over the past couple years......just way too much tension on the supply side when they are loaded at the factory.  I have opened some up, reloaded the film with sufficient slack so the film supply rotates around the stationary hub smoothly, and no issues.  

   Another thing that is quite helpful, for me anyways, is that between each cartridge, I wipe the film gate with silicone.  I use a soft white cotton flannel cloth that I have sprayed with Silicone spray [the type that doesn't harm plastics!], let it sit out for some time to allow all the propellant liquid to evaporate, and then keep this in a small zip lock bag.  I wipe the film gate and quides between cartridges, and even wipe the surface of the exposed film in the cartridge. I also check to see if there is too much film tension in the cartridge before I use it.    I depress the cartridge pressure plate with a small screwdriver in the wells so as not to mar the parts that touch the film, and then pull the film downward with a spare finger.  It should come down easily and if not, the film is too doggone tight!   Any film pull down, I then wind the core to take up that slack.

   As most people know or should know....Super 8mm cartridge film actually glides thru a narrow channel in the film gate of the cameras, one created by the gate, where by the cartridge pressure plate rests firmly on small nibs.  There isn't any high pressure on the film itself, actually it's usually gentle unless the film has a very thick film base, such as FOMA R-100, then there's more gate tension from pressure in the than small gap.  Some film unsteadiness is inherent in the design of the Super 8mm format, due to the cartridges, and the location of the pull down claw.  However, a properly working camera and a smooth running load of film in a cartridge should allow quite a steady image.....not perfect, but good.  

 Double check all variables, and IF the cartridge, let KODAK know.

It does indeed look like a cartridge issue. I had a Beaulieu 5008 once and it had pretty good steadiness. (Even better with the old sound cartridges.  ) Thanks hugely Martin,  for your tips prior to loading any S8 camera.  I've never done any of these before, but in future I certainly will.  A little concerning if Kodak aren't checking their cartridges properly.  

Tyler,  look forward to getting more on this story. 

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Thanks for the tips guys! 

10 hours ago, Doug Palmer said:

Tyler,  look forward to getting more on this story. 

So I talked to Doug over at Spectra about it, when I got the film back. 

After seeing the footage, he said it was most likely the armature nub on the movement. He said they're made out of aluminum normally and they wear sadly. He said to install a new one is a bitch and they still wear out. Back in the day, Phil over at Pro 8 had a steel nub they developed to solve this. 

The guy I bought the camera from has been super cool and said he'd be willing to send me a replacement body and lens since the lens is also damaged. He's going to do some research and get back to me. 

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Thanks for everyones help. I just wanted to get back to ya'll and tell ya what I found out. 

Turns out a lot of people are having the same issues and it's not related to the camera per say. I was able to get the stabilizer in Resolve to clean up SOME of the anomalies, but it's still not where I want it to be. I'm going to try a few things you guys recommended on our next shoot. 

Here is a sample of PART of our first shoot, corrected in Resolve. 

 

 

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