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Any new developments with the FilmFabriek HDS+?


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18 hours ago, Dan Baxter said:

Even with a good imager, 16mm is still below 2K resolution don't forget.

We haven't done an actual resolution test yet, but I can tell the difference between 2k and 4k on our grading monitor very fast with 16mm film. There is absolutely more detail in the 4k image. How much more? I'd say very little of it is actually the exposed image and more of capturing the grain and reducing the aliasing you get from a 2k image, especially on a 4k display. 

18 hours ago, Dan Baxter said:

Well there's the problem, the sliding doors look "cool" but in practise they just get in the way.

Do you actually know anyone that has it wall-mounted? It's not a TV, it weighs a LOT! That's some serious loading capacity for a wall to hold (60 kg/132 lb unloaded, and up to 70 kg/ 155 lb loaded with film). If you have hardwood studs, or steel frame walls (your commercial office space might have that, usually residential won't) then you might be okay, I would not attempt it with regular timber studs.

Yea, all 3 of the Cintel II's I have access to are wall mounted. All three hovered over desks, so you have all that real estate on the desk below the unit. It worked really nicely actually. Tho you are right, they were all in commercial offices. 

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12 hours ago, Robert Hart said:

Timber might be okay if horizontal mounting planks attach through cladding to uprights but a single course of internal brick wall might fall in on you. 

Yea you'd screw 2x4's into the exterior of the wall and screw the mount to them. 

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36 minutes ago, Dan Baxter said:

I mean the cintel scanner is below 2K for 16mm, and it still will be even if they put in a new imager. It'll still be fixed in place and still below 2K resolution for 16mm.

The Cintel machine is but 16mm is definitely capable of allot more detail than just 2K when scanned on a machine that is capable of higher res scans.

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5 hours ago, Dan Baxter said:

I mean the cintel scanner is below 2K for 16mm, and it still will be even if they put in a new imager. It'll still be fixed in place and still below 2K resolution for 16mm.

I almost guarantee the new imager on the Cintel will something similar to the 5.3k imager that FF just started using. It's basically the next model up from the 4k imager. Which means, it'll be way higher resolution in 16mm mode. Right now when you add the crop to remove the perfs, you're well below 4k on 35mm, more like a cropped UHD actually. So the 5.3k imager would give you a higher than 4k image for 35mm and probably close to 2.5k for 16mm after the perf crop, which actually is not bad. Is it optimal? Nope. But with that new lamp housing, I think it would be pretty impressive. 

 

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16mm film does not resolve much better than original interlaced standard definition television. Years back, Super16mm film was being promoted as meeting HDTV requirements. Higher resolution scans will yield more detailed grain. The sequence of motion images will appear sharper due to the randomness of grain. 4K for 16mm? I wonder though, how sharp do the consumers of end-product really want their film grain to look?

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54 minutes ago, Robert Hart said:

Higher resolution scans will yield more detailed grain.

Film images are made of grains.

54 minutes ago, Robert Hart said:

16mm film does not resolve much better than original interlaced standard definition television.

Here's a 16mm frame of a chart I made and scanned in 4K. (can't upload large files here so it is downscaled). I wish interlaced standard def looked like that back in the day ?

Not sure why I'm replying to this troll post but merry xmas everyone! 

Edit:  ..and this would look even sharper today on my new scanner..

27843e8ef81605f492d322df8d9b195a70ebdfc9.jpeg

Edited by Robino Jones
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3 hours ago, Robino Jones said:

Here's a 16mm frame of a chart I made and scanned in 4K. (can't upload large files here so it is downscaled). I wish interlaced standard def looked like that back in the day 

Nice chart! 

We need to get together, I'd love to shoot some test chart stuff. ?

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4 hours ago, Robert Hart said:

16mm film does not resolve much better than original interlaced standard definition television. Years back, Super16mm film was being promoted as meeting HDTV requirements. Higher resolution scans will yield more detailed grain. The sequence of motion images will appear sharper due to the randomness of grain. 4K for 16mm? I wonder though, how sharp do the consumers of end-product really want their film grain to look?

Having recently scanned a few libraries of dupe (IP/IN) 16mm negatives from the 70's and 80's, I can attest to how low resolution they were at the time. We also scanned an entire feature films camera negative from 1985 and even that, doesn't hold a candle to modern film stock. Some older stocks like Kodachrome are outstanding tho, I've always been impressed how much resolution they retain, most likely due to the lower speed. I'd say some of the home movies I've scanned from the 40's and 50's, even on junk cameras, really hold up well resolution wise. I don't remember who did the test, but someone on here (maybe it was you Robert) did a full resolution test from a Scan Station on B&W 16mm reversal and it was outstanding. 

Modern day 50D negative, shot with sharp glass, with new stock, processed immediately after shooting, is quite a sight to see. Where I prefer the colors of 250D, I prefer the crispness of 50D and yea, it has no problem resolving close to 3k. I'd argue not much more, but the added extra resolution prevents aliasing, which is still a common issue with files under 4k. It's kinda of why I scan my image area in 4096x2466 usually, this way I'm editing in a true 4k file and output in 4k as well. I hate the whole scaling thing, really bugs me honestly. 

Our last shoot in Colorado for our railroad documentary looked so nice, I had to throw a few shots together. This was all scanned in 4k and finished in 4k as well. Imagine what this would look like with a $170k scanner? 

https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/730695267

Edited by Tyler Purcell
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It does look rather magnificent. I always had a soft spot for steam trains, a childhood dwelling-in-the-past thing I guess. 

What lens were you using for the retreat zoom at the end of the clip? It had an amazing reach.

Old Kodachrome correctly exposed, comes up sweetly on the Retroscan. I am battling with neg inversion though. 

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15 hours ago, Robert Hart said:

It does look rather magnificent. I always had a soft spot for steam trains, a childhood dwelling-in-the-past thing I guess. 

Thanks, yea it doesn't get much better than 50D for crispness and grain structure. 

15 hours ago, Robert Hart said:

What lens were you using for the retreat zoom at the end of the clip? It had an amazing reach.

Canon 11 - 165, super nice lens, tho mine does have some issues. 

15 hours ago, Robert Hart said:

Old Kodachrome correctly exposed, comes up sweetly on the Retroscan. I am battling with neg inversion though. 

It's pretty amazing honestly, looking at old color home movies, shot right after WWII, the way the US use to look. I recently scanned a bunch from that time period and its just jaw dropping. I'm sad the photographer was really bad with exposure so quite a bit of it was unrecoverable underexposed. 

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