Robert Houllahan

Hi We run millions of feet of film every year in 8mm 16mm and 35mm and over the years there have been some complaints, most of our "bad reviews" on google or whatever are from people who did not understand the process well or had expectations which were out of this world. One review was from a student who was mad her 35mm 500ft roll took too long and we gave her a free scan and this was while we were running two or three feature films simultaneously. Like any lab we have had some mistakes but we do a good job and offer a very wide range of services and scan options.

Yeah these are mechanical machines. It may also be that mag pressure plate was stuck in some way and running film through it loosened it but a tech look through is a good idea.

I would also see what is possibly recoverable in the damaged film. As a person who runs a lab I know it is a hard thing to have to tell a client that there is a loss and especially these days when the world is crazy. Good luck.

I am thinking pressure plate too, have you tried checking if it is stuck or if the spring tension on the plate(s) is ok?

These things do happen very rarely at all labs. Five rolls is 2000ft which should theoretically be the whole film processor through, really only the film that is in the developer bath at the time the film broke will be overcooked in the bath, the rest should be recoverable with some possible damage. We had a 35mm commercial we ran about three years ago and a large truck took out a pole on the street and killed the electricity when we were running. Once we got it back on I think we had lost less than 1200ft in the developer tank on the PhotoMec and the rest we were able to get out and rewash with ok results. Not something any lab wants to tell a customer but it was a fluke. Lab techs are suppose to find nik's and slight tears in the stock and reject them for processing or process them separately, that is what we do. There may have been something that the tech missed in the dark by hand, like a crease they thought would be ok and was actually torn. Technically the damage should be covered under the production's purchased negative insurance as lab processing is "at the risk" of the production. I would have another conversation with the lab and ask how much was overcooked in the developer and how much was in the other baths or the drybox and what can be done to recover that footage as it can be scanned and digital tools can be used to clean problems up.

Yeah most problems with B&W reversal come from the Bleach. At Cinelab we don't use the potassium bleach we have developed a 'secret formula' over the years, the bleach tends to go flat likely from oxidation so you want to make sure you have fresh chemistry.

Fomapan needs more developer time than Tri-X but it especially needs more bleach time, is this a potassium permaganate based bleach?

Nope. Scanned on a LaserGraphics Scan Station 5K to 2.5K overscan, this is an area sensor scanner which uses machine vision based GPU X - Y registration and exposure and camera trigger times at as little as 50 microseconds. The film can physically move around in the gate all it wants actually but is locked on the perforations in the GPU CUDA processing and the perforations and keycode and grain are sharp and are completely steady in the scan. The issue in camera also accounts for the lack of overall sharpness in the image as there is actually a very slight double image recorded to the film.

I remember taking a second look at this when we scanned it and talked to Kyle about this issue. I recall a slight frameline flutter and I think this was scanned concurrently with the other roll on the Spirit-2K to 1080P which did not have the flutter. Possible mis-load in the SR3 mag where the loop goes under the plate guides and or too small a loop? Maybe the pulldown and pin were just "picking" at the perf. If you want to send it back to the lab we can take a look at the perfs and see if there is any deformation on the bench.

On the LaserGraphis Scan Station (I scanned this with ) in overscan the white area is the gate aperture and you will see it move around as the scanner does realtime machine vision based "pin" registration, it is particular to this scanner.

We get film without cores all the time at Cinelab it is not a big deal. Just put in the black bag and then into the can and the lab will take care of it.

Do a clip test, we are open if you want that soon. I would scan dense neg on a Spirit4K, Scannity, Arriscan, Scan Station 6.5k or Xena 6.5K I would avoid the Blackmagic Cintel and Scan-Station 5K for dense material.

What scanner are you planning on getting the film scanned on? Any professional "real" scanner can make DPX frames in proper 10bit or 16bit depth in Cineon-Log. Additionally any scan house should be able to make you ProRes4444 either directly from the scanner or as a no cost addition to the scan. True RGB scanners like the Scannity, Spirit 2K 4K Arriscan will make DPX frames and then the lab or post house should convert those to ProRes444 as part of the service. Newer scanners like Scan Station 5K or 6.5K, Xena 4K 6.5K Blackmagic-Cintel (scans S16mm at sub 2K though) can make ProRes directly in the scanner. For a UHD-4K scan of S16mm you would want that from a really good machine like a Scannity or a newer Scan Station or Xena with the 6.5K sensor.

Looks like an overexposed shot and a LOG scan. Was it ProRes4444? Lots of data range from the 2K scan if so. I would use the offset tool in the LOG grading section of Resolve to bring the shot down and then add contrast and saturation. Should grade fine.

It is pretty difficult to mess up threading the Spirit-2K/4K film path but it can be done. Could be that the pressure mechanism in the gate was gummed up or not seated right. Send the negative back for a rescan or check.

I believe there will be a 6.5K Xena running in Australia soon if it isn't already. I will try to find out more info.

Nice! Similar to what I did with mine. I also rigged a Dynamic Perception toothed belt and stepper setup onto mine for light motion control with the MMX controller which works pretty great for some shots.

I have rigged mine up high with the camera underslung. Maybe get a piece of square steel stock to span the table and drill post holes for two C-Stands and then attach it to the Dana Dolly on one end and the regular single C-Stand at the other so the end of the dolly won't be seen in the shot.

When i say the scanner wasn't setup right I think the LED lamp level wasn't bright enough and not balanced and then the operator used the gpu grade tools in the scanner software to elevate the shadows. They possibly did this to avoid clipping the hilites, maybe due to the lack of DR in that sensor?

I don't think the RetroScan uses perf recognition / machine vision stabilization. It uses a LED or Laser perforation detector to fire the lamp and trigger the camera. Machines like the Scan Staton / Xena etc fire the lamp/trigger the camera using velocity from the capstan encoder or combination of velocity and perforation detection. Then the film is overscanned and the perforation and film edge are looked at with machine vision in real time and the film is stabilized in the GPU in the X and Y axis before being demosaiced and written to disk. With the Retroscan you would probably have to do additional stabilization in Resolve or After Effects etc. with an overscanned file.

Those DPX frames are clipped in the shadows (Looking at them in Resolve scopes) specifically the red channel and the shadow levels are elevated. The scanner was not setup right IMO.

How is he converting the DPX to ProRes? I do this all the time and have never had Resolve or Nucoda clip info in the DPX to ProRes conversion no matter what codec (LT HQ 444 etc.) so it is likely something he is doing wrong.

Also I would say any Bayer mask CFA sensor will have limitations built into it in terms of color fidelity, the dyes used on a silicon mask are far from perfect and far from perfectly applied to the individual photosites. IMO a "real" RGB scan from a monochrome sensor with dichroics or a RGB led sequential exposure will continue to be the standard by which scans are judged and why film will continue to have a special look with different color fidelity than math made CFA cameras no matter how "good" they may be.

A couple new fast very hi res samples: https://www.visionsystech.com/products/cameras/svs-vistek-shr411-sony-imx411-sensor-camera-151mp https://www.teledynedalsa.com/en/products/imaging/cameras/falcon4/

Manufacturers of digital sensors will continue to make higher resolution units with better specs. And scanner manufacturers will put those sensors in the scanners. Look how fast everyone with a Scan Station 5K dumped that (noisy) sensor for the 6.5K Sony Pregius one.