Heikki Repo

Okay, Wittner has the price up for Wittnerchrome 200D in cartridges. And.. well, to be honest I feel somewhat disappointed. I mean, if 72½ meters of this film costs 49,90 euros, how come one cartridge of about 16 meters length costs 22,90 €? Is the work involved really that high? The price per meter for bulk S-8 is 0,69 € and --- for cartridge -- 1,43 €. I guess I better buy some refillable cartridges and try that approach.

Though to be noted, Fuji axed the motion picture film stocks but keeps manufacturing color still photography film. If anything, that proves that one segment doesn't necessarily depend on another one (many people speculated before this that color still film would be buried with motion picture film. But it wasn't.)

And there is also new 2R film available. While Kodak sells 2R film only in larger quantities, ORWO has BW 2R film available and German company Wittner has brought to market color reversal film Aviphot 200D in 16mm 2R. While I'm not sure if ORWO North America (www.orwona.com) has 2R available (or whether you are even located in US), Wittner sells ORWO stock as well (http://www.wittner-kinotechnik.de).

Finland: A. Alhosen elokuvalaboratorio http://alhoslab.fi (super-8 and 16mm)

Some thoughts: 1) Go to your friends. What kind of apartments do they have? Buy someone out of town for a while, pay for their hotel room while they are away and let you shoot. 2) Try to find some place which you could use for different scenes by building sets. Sure, that'll take time and effort and trying to loan / buy used furniture. But sometimes that's the only way if no suitable location is available. 3) Again, go to your friends and people you know. If you have no name, it'll be really difficult to obtain permits for locations with no money. So you have to use all contacts you have. You might also want to try to contact smaller organizations which might find it beneficial for them to help such a project by letting you shoot in their office during weekend or at night (provided the house doesn't have people living there). Give credits and organize a showing of the finished film at their place etc. Offer what you can offer. For some diner you might be able to offer making a marketing video or something like that in exchange for the shooting permit during some time there are no customers or only very few customers. 4) If obtaining some location seems to become a big problem, don't be afraid to make some adjustments to your script. There rarely is only one solution available. Get creative.

Have you done such work before? I'm just asking that because with chroma key work there can be many stumbling blocks on the way. The worst case scenario is really that it looks like .. well ... like it was shot in front of green screen. That's what you'll get if the lighting doesn't look the same in the two and sometimes even that's not enough to make it look convincing. The way I'd see this question is that what kind of film do you have. Are there other such elements which somehow "bend the reality" and involve compositing? If this is the only time in the film that you are going to use this kind of technique and the room isn't in some way really special, I'd try to avoid doing it. It just isn't worth the trouble and the fact that it'll draw at least some attention from those watching the film.

Thank you James, happy Easter to you as well! :)

There are many good answers to your questions, but let me start by giving you mine :) I suggest you buy as manual film camera as possible but preferably not rangefinder. Olympus OM-1 is a good camera with cheap but good optics (Zuikos). In addition to that buy an external lighting meter, possibly spot meter. Then read this: http://www.fredparker.com/ultexp1.htm After that you'll begin to understand how exposure works: shutter speed, aperture, film speed. Begin by buying some reversal film. That is slide film. While most film originating movies are these days shot on negative film, reversal film lets you learn to expose correctly. You'll see when you have exposed something correctly, and then it should be easier for you to move on to negative which is much more forgiving than reversal film. Buy this for example: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/181489-USA/Fujifilm_14883175_RDP_III_135_36_Fujichrome_Provia.html If you want to you can also learn to work in a dark room. However, my suggestion is to start with slide film and process at a pro lab because then you can rule out your lab work when examining the first results. Later on you can experiment with processing color reversal film (E-6) or negative film (C-41) or doing black and white work. For building your own dark room please consult http://www.apug.org If you want to buy yourself some cheap motion picture camera you'd better stay off super16 at this point. Mainly because they aren't exactly cheap even though they are a lot cheaper than say five years ago. So which camera should you begin with? The question is, what features do you need. Is this a camera you want to shoot sync sound with? How long takes do you need to take with it? 16mm film cameras usually take two different kinds of loads: 100 feet and 400 feet. 100 feet of film is about 2½ minutes @ 24 fps. Low end cameras usually only accept 100 ft loads. Professional cameras usually have the ability to load magazines of 400 ft. Regarding the sync sound, many 16mm film cameras are rather loud. In addition to that, if a camera doesn't have crystal sync motor, the speed will vary a little and might change after a while so that the picture isn't in sync with the recorded sound. Amateur cameras rarely have this feature, professional cameras usually do. There are also amateur cameras which to do not have reflex viewfinder. I'd suggest you don't buy one of these even though they are cheap. So which camera should you buy? Which features do you need. Here's a little list, from the cheaper end towards the more expensive professional end: Cameras with reflex viewfinder and 100 ft loads, no motor (unless later installed): Krasnogorsk-3 Bolex H16 REX-3, REX-4 (some suggest not buying older REX versions because they have so dim viewfinder) Cameras with reflex viewfinder and option of 400 ft loads Bolex H16 REX-5, SBM (400 ft loads with an external motor) Bolex H16 EBM Arriflex 16S, ST Cameras with reflex viewfinder and option of 400 ft loads and crystal sync (blimped for more silent operation) Arriflex 16BL Auricons Eclair NPR Eclair ACL (400ft with better motor, 200ft with the first version) Arriflex SR, 2 Aaton LTR Cameras with super16 Arriflex SR3 Aaton XTR Arriflex 416 Black and white or color? If color, buy Vision3 negative film (available in both 100 and 400 ft lengths). There are daylight and tungsten balanced films available. The faster the stock usually more grainy it is. So if you have lots of light and shoot outside, use 50D. If you shoot inside with little light, use 500T. Or, if black and white is your thing, you can shoot either neg or reversal. Kodak and ORWO both supply these films. To question number one, yes. To the second question, depends on the camera. According to some people Krasnogorsk-3 can be quite easily modified to Super16. (Just for the record: there is regular 4:3 16mm, then there is super16 (1.66) and then there is ultra16 which is set somewhere between those two (it is usually easier to modify to this format than to super16 which is the professional format). Or you could also just crop the 16:9 from the 4:3 when doing telecine. Yes. Buy some spot meter, it'll make things easier for you. Unless you wish to use your time building equipment instead of shooting, I'd suggest you to just buy the telecine service from some company. The end result will be much better and the cost won't be too bad. There are many post production companies in the US who offer discounts to students for telecine and might make quite good offers. I have only experience of Cinelicious (I live in Finland, Europe) but there are also others such as Cinelab and Alphacine and many others I just don't know about. Depends. What kind of mood do you want to have? Use fast film and have some lights at your disposal (And if you don't have the latter, get creative and shoot with a lower frame rate and have your actors move half the speed.) Hopefully these help a bit! :)

There is now pricing of the first Wittnerchrome 200D films (vat included): 16mm 1R 100 ft: 49.90 EUR 1R 400 ft: 169.90 EUR 2R 100 ft: 56.90 EUR 2R 200 ft: 99.90 EUR super-8 on core 238 ft: 49.90 EUR

Wittner Cine Tech (http://www.wittner-kinotechnik.de) sells Ektachrome 100D (they have rather large quantity of it left) and they also are soon going to introduce Velvia 100 and Agfa Aviphot 200D to super-8, both reversal stocks.

Here's one frame http://www.peaceman.de/temp/Schmalfilmtitel-01-13.jpg from test footage by Friedemann Wachsmut, also featured on the latest issue of Schmalfilm. Looks quite nice I think :)

Steve, have you seen this http://www.cinematography.com/index.php?showtopic=58995 ?

Matt, if you have the chance to buy film now, you could save a lot by buying Fuji stock. Have you seen http://www.filmstockclearance.com/ ? 400ft rolls for only 42 dollars per piece (excl. VAT). For about 500 dollars you could buy the film needed (4:1) if you act now and if it's possible for you to shoot either in daylight or light using HMIs. It won't really get cheaper than this, taking in to account that the film sold is in date and only overstocked.

How long is the act? How much footage are you going to have? If it's a feature, I'd say the cheapest option is to have cheap SD onelight telecine done for all of the 16mm footage. Have it transferred with exact timecode. Cut the portion shot on film using this material and then do HD telecine or 2K scan according to the timecode. This way the transfer costs will stay low as you won't be needing the high end machinery and colorist all the time, only for the portions you really need. Forget negative cutting. If you are going to have 35mm print you'll be doing it from digital master files and not optically. And it's also cheaper.

One lab more might come (to Finland). Depends on how large the minimum order for the print film with super-8 perforations is at Kodak. But we'll see -- my friend has on the to-do list before that starting the processing business and building the 2K scanner. After that print making services should follow, at least 16mm contact prints and blowups from s8 but hopefully s8 contact prints as well!

If I'm correct, this is the same emulsion that is offered by Maco as Rollei CR200 -- so yes, it is available as still film stock: http://www.macodirect.de/35mm-c-416_417_419_400_454.html

We finished one year ago a documentary of 30' length. It cost us about 7000 EUR (incl. music and very nominal payments to our crew) and we shot it using EX3. We had a crew of four, of which there was usually only three or two people present (dop, me=director, ad). Some parts I as the director shot myself. Considering that the subject wasn't the best setup for a documentary (four different people and their lives) I think we managed it quite well. And if that was manageable, what you are doing is even more so. :) The trailer is here: https://vimeo.com/35472811 PM me if you want to see the whole thing.

Ah yes, sorry, originally I did notice the 55 GBP but somewhere along this thread it had become 55 Euros ;) Anyway, I wasn't aware of the customs relationship between EU and Turkey. I googled a bit about it, and this is what I found: That means there won't be the 4% customs duty of small gauge film, but the VAT has to be paid. However, even then it is quite much cheaper than buying from within EU. Nice. On the other hand, if one owns 16mm cine camera, one might be tempted to buy some Fuji film even for shooting home films: http://www.filmstockclearance.com ;)

It certainly isn't surprising that many hobbyists have been afraid that they won't be able to shoot color at all due to the price hikes. If shooting super-8 wasn't cheap before, it's much worse now. When buying inside EU, the cost of one cartridge of any color S8 VAT included is about 25 EUR. That's 10 EUR / minute of unprocessed film. And only one year ago I paid 15 EUR / cartridge of Vision3... I hope that the Agfa stock Wittner is about to offer will be cheaper because it would be a shame to lose the hobbyists who want to document the growth of their children....

And that's 55 Euros before VAT and customs and postage. I have been wondering about ordering directly from Kodak as well. While they might not sell to individuals, maybe they might sell smaller amounts to companies? Does anyone else know what's the Kodak policy here in Europe?

I watched Hobbit on Monday -- in plain good ol' 2D. I was surprised how good it looked, originating from Epics and being shot for 3D and 48 fps. Got to say, when it comes to telling a story, Jackson really knows what he is doing. Great experience. I guess I'll try to watch it in 48 fps if I get the chance but I wouldn't be too surprised if it becomes at the same time the first and the last 48 fps film I go watch. I like motion blur and 24 fps ;)

Just for the record, Wittner is at the moment testing another color reversal film for use in super-8 and 16mm. Should the tests be successful, Wittner will be bring Agfa Aviphot 200D (polyester base) to 16mm 1R, 2R and super-8. There's a still from this new filmstock on the cover of the next issue of Schmalfilm http://www.schmalfilm-online.de/news/Neue+Super_8_Filme+kommen/1346 and for the news go to Wittner's news (in German): http://wittner-kinotechnik.de/neu/news2013.php#20130205-1 While polyester certainly isn't the base to choose for shooting with high speed 16mm cameras, I wonder if it's more suitable for 8mm work. After all, single-8 material was to my knowledge on polyester base as well...

A Finnish example: from Star Wreck (amateur stuff, 8 years in production, budget of about 15 000 Euros) http://www.imdb.com/...2566/?ref_=sr_1 to Iron Sky (multinational production, budget of about 7.5 million Euros) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1034314/ Most of the features produced here in Finland have budgets between one and three million Euros.

Thanks Gregg and Jean-Louis, I think I'll take the Switar route, that way the look will be more consistent I hope -- and Switars are at least a little closer to my shoebox budget and more available here in Europe than other cine lenses, it seems. While being ill suited for follow focusing, their lightness is something that I do like. Now I just have to find new enough non-reflex Switars... :)

Thanks Jean-Louis, In fact I do own Switar 25mm but it doesn't fit because part of it protrudes from the back of the lens, from behind the threading. Do you know, is there a version of this lens which doesn't have this problem? Thanks, Heikki