Robin Phillips

Tommy told me on facebook that it wont support 400ft mags FYI

So as a graduate of USC's MFA cinema program, I'd mention 2 things - 1 at the end of the day theres really only 3 or 4 classes that were truly "worth it" and 2 some of those classes have historically been available at USC's cinema summer program (used to be called the summer production workshop). That program is open to anyone who applies, you dont need to be an active USC student. UCLA I believe has a similar program. In the case of USC, you'll be taking classes with normal film school students who have decided to stick around for the summer. So it is possible to do a lite version of these film schools via these summer program classes, make some connections with students and staff, and get out without the burn of 100k in expenses and or debt (or whatever USC charges these days). Just some food for thought. (Note I do not know if these summer programs have become more competitive or how well known they are now)

I use to have an Elite 7mm and an 8mm optar. the 7mm elite was sharper. They're creamier than the ziess glass. If a project called for the look I would not hesitate to rent them on a s16mm show

I really hope they can figure out a 400ft mag option, that will probably be the make or break it factor for me given the price point. Thrilled it has a spinning mirror shutter and pin registration.

well... this happened https://www.logmar.dk/galapagos/ in the 25k territory I kinda think a 400' mag option is necessary. I really dont want to keep nitpicking at logmar, but at this price point we're into new car territory and competing with used SR3s with 400' mags. Alternatively I would wonder if any features could be sacrificed to bring the price down (though admittedly they had my attention at rotating disc shutter)

I know they're a pain to deal with, but I think this might be where the project could have benefited from a 1 month kickstarter or something similar. gives people a long-ish but not too long window to decide, give people a link to share, allows credit card purchases, and the ability to alter an order to add a 2nd camera body, or even just commit more money to it because the backer wants to see the thing exist. Also creates FOMO as the window closes and you have to finally decide to buy or not. I know one of the reasons I had not put in an order was I figured there was still time (I also assumed they were going to add an "order now" button to the website and that it wasnt technically for sale yet). Hopefully they can do either this product or a small s16 product of some sort.

interesting. I guess Im asking in case these threads provide any insight to Logmar should they go forward with a new 16mm camera. Something thats arri S or even A minima size would be wonderful in my mind. heck even bolex sized. I dont think its the end of the world if you had to use a soft barney to silence it if needed, but I also learned on the old arri 16s so I suppose I may have a tolerance for things like that which modern, professional users may not have the time for?

anyone have any thoughts if an Arri 16S clone (or a similar design even without the optic viewfinder) might cost to build?

I know I would love a modern take on the Arri 16S. Would be great if a soft barney could be fitted, but ultimately if someone made the camera someone would figure out the barney. I would hope for spare parts availability though since Im sure I'd use it for things Im unwilling to risk my other cameras on (motorcycle, stunts, crash cam etc). It would also just be nice to have an S size camera one could take around to steal shots and / or film some home movies on. Its a bit much to shoulder up an SR3 for home movies at christmas. To keep the price down I know I, and I think most of us, could live without a pressure plate mag and just thread the thing. I do wonder what pricing could be sustained given that the economy may be about to faceplant here in the states. $7500 USD and I'd buy immediately, but that pricing may be fantasy thinking. it would certainly be nice if such a thing could come in under 15k USD, though I wonder if at that price the only buyers would be rental houses, rich collectors, and the odd person or two who has a specific application for said proposed camera.

Agreed. given how long it seems like this was percolating it seems odd to effectively do no advertising and then cancel it. Im not sure anyone outside of this forum and two facebook groups even knew it was for sale. They didnt even have a "pre order now" button on their website

it would be nice if it effectively could fill the roll of a modernized super 16 Arri S

I'd throw out there that I dont think its worth it if you're considering buying your own scanner for just one feature film, unless you are experienced at actually scanning and getting the most out of the picture in said scan. The money is, IMO, much better spent on just about any lab with a good scanner that has years of experience dialing things in. I think if you're just trying to archive your extended families massive collection of home 8mm movies maybe the retro scan might make some sense. But since youre talking a feature I'd be calling Robert or Tyler or even Fotokem first to see who could best work with my budget for the output I need in the time frame I need before spending what would amount to all your scanning money on owning a scanner, just to have to fiddle around and figure out how to operate it much less master it on your own.

the Laowa probe does work pretty good, I've seen it get fairly close to a 3ft star destroyer type model and everything held up just fine. https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=235199918550257 But if you are matching a live action plate, you'll want to use the same (or as same as possible field of view) lens, lest things get weird and the shot fall apart in comp.

unfortunately there arent many good written resources, what I think was a symptom of each shop trying to keep their trade secrets back before the days where internet tutorials were a thing. Almost everything I know I learned from practical vfx era ILM people. you might start with this edition of the VES handbook - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0240812425/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (no affiliation). it has some info, including some rough calculations for water and pyro scaling. But it definitely does not have everything you'll be after if you really want to master practical work. These guys on youtube do some video tutorials for practical work and may be more immediately useful https://www.youtube.com/c/InCameraTV (again, no affiliation) You should also look up on youtube "sense of scale", its a documentary on the subject but the creator put an insane amount of additional footage on youtube, interviews with all sorts of people talking about all of their little tricks they use to do. If you're in the LA area, might be worth seeing if Fon Davis' Fonco Studios has any internship opportunities. If in the bay area, I'd see if Tippet might. Both still do practical effects (tippets practical work has been on the recent star wars shows). Obviously if you could find an internship at ILM and make friends with the old guard that would be the best way to learn, but I dont know what they offer or how competitive that would be (though Id guess quite competitive). Just some thoughts to get you started Generally speaking for miniatures you need to keep the full model in focus for your shot. This is one of the reasons motion control is useful, as you can use a DSLR to do long exposures while you're stopped down as far as your lens will go without going iffy, and still get a cool move. Motion control also can let you do repeated passes, so you can light the miniature for a "beauty" pass with no regard for the blue or green screen behind it, then you can shoot another pass with the blue/green screen lit up but your model flagged into complete darkness (thus giving you a mask pass to pull your matte from). You can do these moves with something as simple as a kessler moco rig or even a home made one. Next steps up are Kuper or MRMC systems, but those rent for several thousand a day + the operator. When you do high speed model work, you need lots of light. LOTS of light. Depending on how close you get to the model you may need to be living at T22. If you dont have a generator and lots of lights this can mean shooting outside and figuring out where the sun will be to get what you want. Wider lenses will also help you in terms of scale, how much depth you can hold too. As I recall Ray Gilberti (an ILM miniatures DP) always leaned toward wider lenses. He did Galaxy Quest, Star Wars Ep 1 etc For best compositing results, its important to grain match all of your plates to the grain/noise of your source camera. There are tutorials on regraining on youtube Light glints are also something to be aware of - hard reflections can blow the scale of a shot. dulling sprays and sometimes even makeup powder kits can be used to knock down a glint. A lot of pyro and water stuff tends to be more art than science btw, usually tests would reveal what worked vs any formulas. something to keep in mind. If you need to run lighting on your miniature, model rail road incandescent lights are often your best bet for feeling real, not just for their color temp but also for their natural subtle flicker. when you use LEDs, you usually need the expensive ones to prevent hard on/off flickering. If your miniature is suppose to be outside, sometimes it makes sense to just film it outside. Note that the sky is, for all intents and purposes, infinitely scalable. Theres a great shot of a miniature of the Saturn V rocket in First Man that they got by just rolling the model outside as the sun was going down and just shot it all in camera. Same thing was done with the Sand Crawler in Rise of Skywalker (come to think of it I think in star wars 77 the sandcrawler was also 100% in camera) If I think of any other tips off the top of my head I'll revisit the thread. Im sure theres some genuine veterans around here that could also chime in.

I have the IVS replacement VP hypertap II on my SR3 and AZ's SR3 video arm tap on my 435. both are a major image quality improvement over SD, however the IVS replacement on the SR3 uses a lens attached to the camera board that results in soft edges, and Im convinced it has slightly more signal processing delay than the AZ spectrum option.

thats fair. I guess its just a question of if the market can support that price given the limited market vs digital. I suppose we shall see.

I wonder if they're looking at 416 prices and the willingness of folks to pay 15k+ for the indie assist HD taps and want to go after that market? granted SR3s are going for 30k so maybe that was a factor too? One would think they'd have to have orders lined up from rental houses though to make that price jump, but maybe thats just what the thing is gonna cost? Does seem unfortunate if the price has jumped that high though. a 50k arri or red camera body has a large enough market for owner operators to make that investment back and profit, not sure if thats true for 16

I asked on their facebook page and they said its a max8 gate, which is a bit more interesting. Im considering one for motorcycle mounting and other scenarios where mounting a large 16mm camera is too difficult or too risky (as in replacing the 16mm body may be out of the question), especially if the image quality is up to par with their original super8 camera. That being said I'll be waiting for actual footage off it before making any decisions.

lets just hope its increased demand that Kodak is having a hard time keeping up with instead of production problems reducing output. I kinda figure if Arri 416s are now going for roughly 75k USD then its probably (hopefully) just too much demand to shoot 16

Mutascan's website shows 400ft loads of 200T 16mm in stock at least https://mutascan.film/en/tuote/16mm-kodak-vision3-200t-color-negative-7213/ . I too am prone to preferring to order online via a traditional web shop (something I wish kodak still did), but have you reached out to kodak via email for your region? They should have contact emails on their Motion Picture website, and in theory this is the optimal way to order anyway.

not to unnecessarily dredge up a dead conversation, but was re-browsing this thread and started wondering how (or if) the situation has changed now that SR3s are going for 20-30k USD and 416s above 60k USD.

nah, I need to finally check my SR3 since it came back from being serviced. I've got a bit of every stock on 400ft rolls in the freezer that are all a bit over 2 years old now I think, but since I was going to check for sharpness in the image I was hoping to shoot with something a bit more fresh. Was hoping to order online since Im not gonna be back in LA any time soon to do local pickup with kodak or cinestill.

just went to order a few 100' rolls of 200T online and it seems like 16mm is a rare commodity again. Stupid question, but does anyone have a contact for the LA kodak rep (I think they're in the old reel good building now)?

Makes one wonder what would have to happen to get Arri to put the 416 back into production (lacking enough vendor demand, I assume multiple dumptrucks of money might convince them?). I wonder if they're even set up to do a camera like that anymore

That pricing seems reasonable, especially given the jump in s16 gear prices lately (I've seen some basic SR3 kits pushing past $25k USD asking price). Eventually the arri and aaton parts supply will run dry, which will not be a fun day. Maybe if they can make enough of these this will be the answer. That or we fund a very oversized bake sale to convince arri and/or aaton to produce more spare parts lol