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Mario A. Peraza

Using modern PL mount lens on film cameras?

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This is in regards to the Zeiss 21-100mm LWZ.3 in PL-mount.

 

Would it make sense to use it on an arriflex 235? Or a Arriflex 435? And to push it, an Aaton A-minima? Would it even work? As far as I know the flange distance between PL mounts are all universally the same, but the mirror shutter sticks out on film cameras.

 

1) Is this combination doable?

2) How can I find out what lenses were used for film cameras?

3) Do lenses affect what #'d perf'd the film stock is?

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I know a few users on here were using lenses as new as Xeen on film cameras in the past and the images came out fine.

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There are no optical issues associated with using digital era cine lenses on film cameras, the only thing to watch is the possibility of hitting the spinning reflex mirror/shutter. As you say, PL mounts specs are universally the same, but there is the mirror to clear.

 

Very few lenses have been designed with extended rear optics for digital cameras only - the two Angenieux DP zooms and Panavision T series anamorphics spring to mind - generally manufacturers are sticking to the conventions of film-era design in terms of clearance behind the mount for mirrors. Angenieux actually discontinued the DP line to go back to making zooms that could work on both film and digital cameras. Allowing for a mirror also allows for internal filter systems and OLPFs that can be quite a bit forward of the sensor itself, so it makes sense to stick to a standard.

 

The rear optical block needs to protrude more than an inch past the PL mount flange to cause problems, if you are unsure if a lens is suitable for film cameras, check the manufacturer specs or ask them. Promotional articles on the Zeiss 21-100 LWZ specifically mention that it can be used on both film and digital cameras, but you could tell that just by looking at the lens and seeing that it doesn't have optics poking out past the PL mount.

 

A 35mm format lens can usually be used on a 16mm camera without a problem, the main issue is that some large barrelled lenses don't clear the viewfinder elbow on certain cameras (Master Primes on an SR3 for example won't fit). You might need to physically test that it mounts OK. Some 16mm format lenses are not recommended for use on 35mm cameras because they extend back a little further, but it's usually wide angles (or zooms with a wide end) which wouldn't cover a 35mm frame anyway.

 

I don't understand your question about perfs, suffice to repeat that any modern lens is optically fine to use on film cameras.

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Subject to the provisos that Dom mentioned above, there is no reason why the Xeens wouldn't work just fine. This particular set might not be the most useful, though, as the focal lengths are rather long. Shooting 2 perf generally makes use of wider lenses because of the field of view in 2.40:1. When shooting for a 2.40:1 crop, you're more often using lenses in the 18-35mm range.

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Can anyone advise if these lenses might work well on an Arri 35-III adapted to 2 perf?

 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1185218-REG/rokinon_xeen_24_50_85mm.html

 

Thank you.

Actually, they won't fit the 35II or 35III. The barrel of the lens is too damn wide and it hits the mirror by the tiniest bit. Such a travesty too, it's the reason why I sold my 35IIC because I wasn't going to invest in new glass.

 

BTW, everything I've personally shot on 35mm was with the Xeen's and they look great. Here is a little demo if you're bored:

 

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There are no optical issues associated with using digital era cine lenses on film cameras, the only thing to watch is the possibility of hitting the spinning reflex mirror/shutter. As you say, PL mounts specs are universally the same, but there is the mirror to clear.

 

Very few lenses have been designed with extended rear optics for digital cameras only - the two Angenieux DP zooms and Panavision T series anamorphics spring to mind - generally manufacturers are sticking to the conventions of film-era design in terms of clearance behind the mount for mirrors. Angenieux actually discontinued the DP line to go back to making zooms that could work on both film and digital cameras. Allowing for a mirror also allows for internal filter systems and OLPFs that can be quite a bit forward of the sensor itself, so it makes sense to stick to a standard.

 

The rear optical block needs to protrude more than an inch past the PL mount flange to cause problems, if you are unsure if a lens is suitable for film cameras, check the manufacturer specs or ask them. Promotional articles on the Zeiss 21-100 LWZ specifically mention that it can be used on both film and digital cameras, but you could tell that just by looking at the lens and seeing that it doesn't have optics poking out past the PL mount.

 

A 35mm format lens can usually be used on a 16mm camera without a problem, the main issue is that some large barrelled lenses don't clear the viewfinder elbow on certain cameras (Master Primes on an SR3 for example won't fit). You might need to physically test that it mounts OK. Some 16mm format lenses are not recommended for use on 35mm cameras because they extend back a little further, but it's usually wide angles (or zooms with a wide end) which wouldn't cover a 35mm frame anyway.

 

I don't understand your question about perfs, suffice to repeat that any modern lens is optically fine to use on film cameras.

Thank you!

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Thanks guys, much appreciated. I wonder how the Sigma 18-35 would go on an Arri 35III. Filmmaking can be like chess - heaven help you if you make a wrong move.

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Thanks guys, much appreciated. I wonder how the Sigma 18-35 would go on an Arri 35III. Filmmaking can be like chess - heaven help you if you make a wrong move.

 

Works great on the Aaton 35. I'm selling a PL version.

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Actually, they won't fit the 35II or 35III. The barrel of the lens is too damn wide and it hits the mirror by the tiniest bit.

 

You mean the lens barrel hits the camera housing where it slopes out to house the mirror? I would imagine it's not the barrel but the iris gear.

 

Zeiss put a bevel on the iris gears of their short, wide bodied lenses for this reason I think, but I suppose Rokinon don't have the same history with cine lenses.

 

post-46614-0-69576800-1546560949_thumb.jpg

 

You could probably machine a bevel on the Xeen iris gears without too much trouble, if you owned the lenses.

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Posted (edited)

Some time spent at a rental house might be the answer, and talking with the person there who knows film cameras best. And renting before buying anything.

Edited by Jon O'Brien
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You mean the lens barrel hits the camera housing where it slopes out to house the mirror? I would imagine it's not the barrel but the iris gear.

Yes, at first its the iris gear, but doing some measurements on a slimmer lens, it seems that even if you fixed it, the actual barrel would touch or rub as well. It doesn't even get close to fitting sadly.

 

Also, I'm not sure if the CP3's fit.

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What about using Nikkor (Nikon) lenses on film cameras? There are some interesting older threads on this topic. Anyone encountered any problems using these lenses in cinematography? Yes, it's true they aren't cine lenses and you can't use a follow focus on them, and they probably breathe and so on too. Also, they just won't fit on some cameras such as Arri without extensive camera modification. But aside from all that, and assuming one could get the modification done, how good are they as a low-cost lens in filmmaking? Any digital users also like to comment?

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Nikkor lenses suffer from the same problems that all adapted stills lenses suffer from; Short focus throw, breathing, lack of color matching between lenses, clicked iris, and small physical size. In addition they focus 'the wrong way' which can be confusing if you're not used to it.

 

Optically, they're great, and there's a huge range of different glass to choose from.

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Posted (edited)

What about using Nikkor (Nikon) lenses on film cameras? There are some interesting older threads on this topic. Anyone encountered any problems using these lenses in cinematography? Yes, it's true they aren't cine lenses and you can't use a follow focus on them, and they probably breathe and so on too. Also, they just won't fit on some cameras such as Arri without extensive camera modification. But aside from all that, and assuming one could get the modification done, how good are they as a low-cost lens in filmmaking? Any digital users also like to comment?

 

 

Jon, if you keep your eyes peeled - the 80-200 Nikkor with a PL-mount and some cine-style mods (done by Duclos) pops up from time to time on eBay for <$1500.

 

https://thecinelens.com/2011/10/09/duclos-pl-80-200mm-f2-8-rental/

 

I found it to be a decent enough lens, I'm sure the shorter focal lengths are pretty good too.

Edited by Brenton Lee

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Hi, I´m using set of Sony Cine Alta 4k primes on Arriflex 435 with great results.

They are T2 lenses in whole range and extremely sharp wide open, so pairing with lower sensitivity film stock is very nice.

 

post-17404-0-93410400-1546864328_thumb.jpg

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